Charlie Alliston case - fixie rider accused of causing pedestrian death

[glasgowcyclist]

I've just remembered I saw a pedestrian face down and presumably unconscious, being attended to by a paramedic on a pedestrian crossing in - wait for it - Old Street. Clearly from circumstances she'd been struck by a car. I could find no mention of it in the papers.

The selective coverage is concerning.

This, too, happened last year in the same street Mrs Briggs was killed but there was no national outcry about it, despite a police error meaning no charges were brought against the driver:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/lon...olice-messed-up-we-want-justice-a3513291.html

The family of a student who died in a hit-and-run have today criticised a “disastrous” police blunder which led to the driver avoiding criminal charges.
Osman Ebrahim, 21, was crossing the road in east London with a friend when they were struck by Zanah Mohamed, who was driving a BMW. Mr Ebrahim suffered fatal head injuries.
Coroner Mary Hassell ruled at an inquest that Mr Mohamed knew he had hit two people but still fled from outside Club Aquarium in Old Street.

The Crown Prosecution Service decided there was not enough evidence for Mr Mohamed to be charged with causing death by careless driving.
But at the inquest on Friday it emerged that police did not even bring the driver to court for failing to stop at the scene of a crash — because they missed the deadline for pressing charges.​

 

[Ian H]

The Mail clearly doesn't hate everyone, it has it's biases.

Everyone I might wish to consort with.

 

[jarlrmai]

Everyone I might wish to consort with.

Indeed, I see the comment about the Mail hating everyone as a passive view, kind of like the "all politicians are idiots" defense it's away of sort of not agreeing but not having the ability to argue your position.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I think it also depends on the time of day.

I used to ride through that area quite regularly and, whilst you could get some speed up either side of rush hour, you wouldn't want to go bombing through there during lunch time.

20ish mph an appropriate speed around peds?

That cars are empowered by our bonkers society to go that fast around peds doesn't make it an appropriate speed for them either.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

[QUOTE 4931151, member: 43827"]I think we're arguing the same position. No time for bell - yell.[/QUOTE]
No time for bell, yell, whilst braking.

The parallel otherwise is knobber drivers hitting the horn instead of cutting their speed.

 

[Origamist]

20ish mph an appropriate speed around peds?

That cars are empowered by our bonkers society to go that fast around peds doesn't make it an appropriate speed for them either.

Drivers are regularly doing far in excess of 20mph around pedestrians. I'd like 20km/12mph limits on many roads in our busy towns and cities.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Drivers are regularly doing far in excess of 20mph around pedestrians. I'd like 20km/12mph limits on many roads in our busy towns and cities.

simply convert all urban limits from mph to kph would work for me.

 

[Pale Rider]

simply convert all urban limits from mph to kph would work for me.

That's a thought, but for fitter riders it would raise the question of whether speed limits should apply to bicycles.

Mr Briggs seems to want push bikes brought fully under the road traffic acts, which would include speed limits.

Enforcement might not be easy, I believe some carbon dream machines don't trip some radar guns/cameras.

Then there's the question of how you find the speeding cyclist once you have a photo.

Which in turn raises the question of bicycle registration.

I think as cyclists, we need to be careful what we wish for.

 

[jarlrmai]

How can I be expected to know how fast I'm going on my bike? Apart from on very steep downhills there's only one speed limit I can easily break on the bike and that one isn't even enforced for cars. I'm confused as to how any of this would have prevented this tragedy?

 

[TheDoctor]

I still think that had this been about a car doing 18mph and killing someone, we'd never have heard about it.
Just like we didn't hear about the eight or so people killed on the roads yesterday.

 

[growingvegetables]

Mr Briggs seems to want push bikes brought fully under the road traffic acts, which would include speed limits.

Not true. "Speaking on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme, Matthew Briggs, Briggs’s husband, said he was calling for cycling to be incorporated into the Road Traffic Act to allow offences of death by dangerous cycling and death by careless cycling to be considered."

Not surprising ... and (imho) not a big deal, in terms of legislation?

... I think as cyclists, we need to be careful what we wish for.

... aware of Road Traffic Act (1988) 28-32 and Road Traffic Act (1991) 7. Cyclists are already covered. There are all sorts of mode-specific legislative requirements already - the motor-cycle helmet sections don't apply to cyclists, for example.

Fair enough, BTL loons on the DM may wish to express somewhat stronger views. But don't attribute such looniness to Mr Briggs?

 

[growingvegetables]

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...briggs-cyclists-traffic-bike-charlie-alliston - interesting reading.

 

[Pale Rider]

It may be semantics, but 'incorporation' is not the same as 'partial incorporation' which would be required if you wanted cyclists to only be the subject of the 'death by' offences.

I've no idea if Mr Briggs would be happy for cyclists to be excused compliance with speed limits, in the event of the adoption of widespread lower limits in urban areas.

My guess is he wouldn't, given that speed played a part in the death of his wife.

 

[jarlrmai]

It's a bit odd really, my understanding is that the existence the "death by" laws is actually because drivers were not being found guilty by a jury of peers when charged with more serious offences. So adding these rules for cyclists would actually seem to be a reduction in the deterrent.

Given the cyclist was doing below the posted speed limits I'm not sure how that would have helped? Oh iI see you meant if it were reduced to 12mph for cars.

Would he be happy with US style "jay walking" laws for similar reasons?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

That's a thought, but for fitter riders it would raise the question of whether speed limits should apply to bicycles.

Mr Briggs seems to want push bikes brought fully under the road traffic acts, which would include speed limits.

Enforcement might not be easy, I believe some carbon dream machines don't trip some radar guns/cameras.

Then there's the question of how you find the speeding cyclist once you have a photo.

Which in turn raises the question of bicycle registration.

I think as cyclists, we need to be careful what we wish for.

Illogical Jim.

Changing speed limits for motors doesn't bring up any questions about cyclists.