Charlie Alliston case - fixie rider accused of causing pedestrian death

[mjr]

Agreed.

Umm ... really?

I'm going to make extrapolations - yeah, I know. I wasn't there, and it's not in the reporting I've seen.

Lunchtime central London street; motor vehicles moving (- but at NOTHING like 18mph); pedestrian steps out hoping to cross (- but motors are moving just fast enough to make it impossible; guesswork - 5-8mph?); pedestrian steps back (why, we can't know).

And Alliston is "bombing along" at 18mph, in the space between the slow-moving traffic and the kerb. No escape, no evasion space. My phrase - and I stand by it; as I envision the situation, 18mph was far too fast, in that narrow space.

Doubly so when his ability to brake is so compromised.

Shouting a "warning" (although it was rather more aggressive than a warning, by his own account), or even two of them (again, by his account) is
a) useless, in such a noisy, distracted environment, and
b) probably a sign of HIS panic (given the words he claimed to have used) that a situation he had thought was under control (and could more or less ride through), was, suddenly and completely, out of his control.

On b) - all it took was a fraction of a second. And he was ****ed. 18mph was far too fast, in that context.

Yes - I do appreciate I have made lazy assumptions. But (unlike some of the generalisations above), I hope they're pretty fairly based on the actual situation, at that time?

I agree that 18mph is probably too fast through a junction on Old Street at lunchtime and few motorists are doing that speed there much then.

I don't agree that many motorists are below 18mph in busy pedestrian areas in general. They're blasting through them at 30mph or 40mph if the speed limit permits and often faster than the permitted limit and woe betide anyone stepping onto the carriageway. Heck, you don't even need to be on the carriageway: a motorist launched their car across two footways and one conflicting carriageway at a fair height into the windows of Cabot Circus in Bristol a few years ago.

 

[DRM]

[QUOTE 4930427, member: 43827"]Having a bell does not stop you yelling in real emergencies when you may not have enough time to ring the bell. Everyday riding does not consist entirely of emergencies, at least mine doesn't.

I really believe that bells are seen like dork discs and reflectors, something real cyclists don't need.

A little bit irrelevant in this thread as I very much doubt a bell would have made any difference.[/QUOTE]
Personally I would rather be braking & yelling if someone stepped out in front of me, then messing about ringing a bell, if an emergency stop was needed, while your ringing your not braking.

 

[mjr]

Personally I would rather be braking & yelling if someone stepped out in front of me, then messing about ringing a bell, if an emergency stop was needed, while your ringing your not braking.

My bell is controlled by the left thumb, which doesn't operate any brake, so I can do both.

I agree with others that a bell would probably be irrelevant to the collision in this case.

 

[growingvegetables]

I agree that 18mph is probably too fast through a junction on Old Street at lunchtime and few motorists are doing that speed there much then.

I don't agree that many motorists are below 18mph in busy pedestrian areas in general. They're blasting through them at 30mph or 40mph if the speed limit permits and often faster than the permitted limit and woe betide anyone stepping onto the carriageway. Heck, you don't even need to be on the carriageway: a motorist launched their car across two footways and one conflicting carriageway at a fair height into the windows of Cabot Circus in Bristol a few years ago.

Left the bit relevant to this awful incident.

Signed with love and affection, egg-sucking granny

 

[Dan B]

Without wishing to take sides on any other point (I broadly agree with LCC/CTC statements) I want to remark only that my personal experience does not accord with that of the people insisting 18mph is too fast for the location. I quite regularly ride that way and, at least westbound, if the lights are green then the motor traffic is doing 20mph or above and the motorbikes often 30 or more. Perhaps this was not how it was on the day, but I've not seen any report saying si

 

[GrumpyGregry]

More mundane charges mean higher odds of a conviction.
The media circus is a separate issue to justice or the law being enforced fairly. Did it help the widower to have his photo in the papers every day and the circumstances of his wife's death played out in day by day updates?

Helping the bereaved is, unfortunately, not a priority of the legal system.

 

[KneesUp]

I expect that if he gets a custodial sentence this thread will be long enough to fill his days inside by the time he gets sent down if he can find enough paper to print it out.

 

[DRM]

[QUOTE 4930761, member: 43827"]As I said, having a bell doesn't stop you shouting. The two are not mutually exclusive.[/QUOTE]
Thats not my point, stopping quickly on a bike means concentrating on braking hard & getting up off the saddle with your backside over the rear wheel, whilst also possibly un clipping, you don't have time to ring a bell, a shout comes more naturally.

 

[fossyant]

The Daily Mail is continuing with the witch hunt. 'Militant Fixie rider's' and mentions the LFGSS forum specifically, and is quoting users comments.

 

[midlife]

I think that's because he posted on LFGSS after the event

 

[jefmcg]

in no way comparable.

the case you cite involved a momentary lapse with tragic consequences.

So, you believe the first time that lorry driver ever mounted the kerb without looking properly just happened to be the one time there was a child there?

Personally, I think we should have a zero tolerance policy for killing children on the footway. How many do you think you should be able to kill before getting convicted? Three strikes, maybe?

 

[User269]

All respect and condolences to the victim, family & friends.

The rider concerned has not been found guilty of causing anyone's death. Charlie Alliston was found guilty of causing bodily harm by "wanton or furious driving".

According to DfT figures, there are less than 3 pedestrian deaths a year caused by cyclists, as opposed to 430 caused by motor vehicles.

So, what changes to the law, and to attitudes do we need here?

 

[jefmcg]

I've just remembered I saw a pedestrian face down and presumably unconscious, being attended to by a paramedic on a pedestrian crossing in - wait for it - Old Street. Clearly from circumstances she'd been struck by a car. I could find no mention of it in the papers.

 

[srw]

The Daily Mail is continuing with the witch hunt. 'Militant Fixie rider's' and mentions the LFGSS forum specifically, and is quoting users comments.

The Daily Mail hates everyone. Be grateful it hasn't found this thread.

 

[jarlrmai]

The Mail clearly doesn't hate everyone, it has it's biases.