Chain lubrication, the balance of pros versus cons

[DaveReading]

Over lubrication of the drivechain can lead too an excessive build up of black gunk, if not cleaned regular. This black mixture of lube and detritus could be worse that not lubricating, in extreme circumstances, IMO.

That's certainly the conventional wisdom, but I've always wondered about that.

It might be an interesting experiment to give a chain the white spirit bath treatment, thereby washing out any debris, and then put the resulting gunk through, say, a coffee filter so that any solid content can be examined at one's leisure.

I'm not entirely convinced that what would be left is the supposed grinding paste that, we're told, is responsible for prematurely wearing out our chains.

Has anyone tried this? If so, what did you find?

 

[the snail]

Has anyone tried this? If so, what did you find?

As a very lazy motorcyclist I tried this for years. I used to spray tons of oil on the chain, much of it would accumulate in black grimy layers. On the rare occasions I cleaned off the gunk, it came up like new. If you don't want black gunk , you need to clean the excess off the chain after lubing it. I'm awaiting the outcome of this groundbreaking research with baited breath though, as I'm sure are tribologists everywhere.

 

[Chislenko]

I'm confused, I use Gunk to clean my chain.

 

[silva]

Ok made a bubu with A2/marine.
All stainless steel found in my kitchen are highly magnetic, from knives through bowls to cooker hob and sink. Definitely not 3xx grade.

Only cheap and nasty kitchen sink from Screwfix is non(barely)magnetic.

Ok made a bubu with A2/marine.
All stainless steel found in my kitchen are highly magnetic, from knives through bowls to cooker hob and sink. Definitely not 3xx grade.

Only cheap and nasty kitchen sink from Screwfix is non(barely)magnetic.

The kitchen sink in my garage, and the mixing bowl I tried for the stone, were A2 / grade 304
Lightly magnetic. Sold and marked as such. Not that expensive, this grade is the cheapest and most abundant stainless grade.
The salt stone fret holes in the bowl.

Last year I purchased in a second hand shop a person lift motor carrier, see this video, sec 10 onwards they ride it in: https://www.handimove.be/nl/demofilms/transportwagen-voor-draagbare-motor
It's sold, and marked, as stainles steel A4.
I bought it for another purpose: I lay my bike over the handlebars, so that I can work on it easier - free spinning wheels.
Just as test, I soaked some yellow paper tape in the condensation water of the salt stone, and wrapped it just behind a handle bar. 3 days later still no sign of rust.

So all just like what I iinked on the web.

 

[PaulSB]

Over lubrication of the drivechain can lead too an excessive build up of black gunk, if not cleaned regular. This black mixture of lube and detritus could be worse that not lubricating, in extreme circumstances, IMO.

This is very much my view though I don't know if the black gunk has any wearing effect. What I am convinced of is a dirty, gunky chain is less efficient than a clean and correctly lubed one. How do I know this? I can feel the difference when I ride.

@Ajax Bay my definition of regular is after every ride. I put my bike in the garage immediately I get home, wipe the chain 3-4 times with an old oily, absorbent cloth - preferably an old tea towel.. Any accumulated dirt is removed giving me a very clean chain. Probably takes two minutes, if the chain needs lube I'll spend another 2-3 minutes on this.

My thorough clean and lube regime is the Mickle method which I carry out when needed. I never lube chain rings or cassette. If either seems to have got dirty on a ride the garden hose needs 2-3 minutes to shift this.

I use Squirt Lube, the best I've found giving a nicely lubed clean chain. The only downside to Squirt is after a long wet ride, say 2+ hours proper rain, it definitely needs replacing.

If there's one thing I can't abide it's a dirty chain which if I run a finger over leaves a dirty wet lube deposit.

I've struggled with understanding the rest of the thread. An unlubed chain wouldn't for me.

 

[Chief Broom]

As a motorcyclist i always used a scotoiler which is a vacuum operated device which drips oil onto the chain when moving. Chain life is massively extended probably 3 or 4 times more than not using one. The 'grinding paste' problem isnt a factor as speed of the chain together with the oil continually flings it off [but not so much to foul the rear tyre]. I guess with a cycle the 'flinging' of of debris has to be replaced by the rag wiping. I think replicating this might be the way to go ie more oil and more rag wiping,

 

[DaveReading]

As a very lazy motorcyclist I tried this for years. I used to spray tons of oil on the chain, much of it would accumulate in black grimy layers. On the rare occasions I cleaned off the gunk, it came up like new. If you don't want black gunk , you need to clean the excess off the chain after lubing it. I'm awaiting the outcome of this groundbreaking research with baited breath though, as I'm sure are tribologists everywhere.

What you describe wasn't what I was suggesting.

 

[PaulSB]

@silva while on my ride today I was thinking about this thread. I have a question for you, a serious one.

In every situation and under all conditions I can think of metal on metal contact for moving parts requires a form of lubrication.

Why therefore do you feel your cycle chain is the exception?

 

[presta]

I think chain cleaning and lubrication must be the cyclists' equivalent of HiFi buffs with their oxygen-free speaker leads.

 

[classic33]

I think chain cleaning and lubrication must be the cyclists' equivalent of HiFi buffs with their oxygen-free speaker leads.

Not really an answer, is it.

 

[silva]

Over lubrication of the drivechain can lead too an excessive build up of black gunk, if not cleaned regular. This black mixture of lube and detritus could be worse that not lubricating, in extreme circumstances, IMO.

After I ceased to put oil on my chain, black gunk buildup ceased too. Not even a need to clean.
Result: chain lenghtening rate collapsed.
It's not "over lubrication", just "lubrication", with oil or any low viscous substance, including water.

The empirical experience made me decide to cease lubrication. And by now, it proved.
Lubrication requires a substance that in the dead phase flows back into the joints

@silva while on my ride today I was thinking about this thread. I have a question for you, a serious one.

In every situation and under all conditions I can think of metal on metal contact for moving parts requires a form of lubrication.

Why therefore do you feel your cycle chain is the exception?

Why does it require lubrication: to lower friction, and thereby wear, and thereby cost.
Lubrication has pros.
Lubrication has also cons.
As it proved for my situation: the latter must outweigh the former.
The cons being stickyness to dirt, and making that dirt mobile.

 

[PaulSB]

The cons being stickyness to dirt, and making that dirt mobile.

Well I've taken the trouble to read this thread from the start for a second time. I've reached the conclusion your problem is simply you've used the wrong lube for your conditions. There is no need for a lube to be sticky or attract dirt.

I rode for 4.5 hours yesterday and then spent two minutes cleaning my chain. I ride 3-4 times a week so that's 6-8 minutes a week. Hardly life-changing.

I'm happy you've found a solution which works for you. It is though one which goes against all established empirical and scientific fact.

Most of your argument in favour of not lubricating a chain is based on keeping the chain clean. The correct lube and a couple of minutes wiping the chain has the same result!

 

[Alex321]

After I ceased to put oil on my chain, black gunk buildup ceased too. Not even a need to clean.
Result: chain lenghtening rate collapsed.
It's not "over lubrication", just "lubrication", with oil or any low viscous substance, including water.

The empirical experience made me decide to cease lubrication. And by now, it proved.
Lubrication requires a substance that in the dead phase flows back into the joints
Why does it require lubrication: to lower friction, and thereby wear, and thereby cost.
Lubrication has pros.
Lubrication has also cons.
As it proved for my situation: the latter must outweigh the former.
The cons being stickyness to dirt, and making that dirt mobile.

As PaulSB said, it was more the wrong lubricant than just not needing any.

As you yourself say here lubrication reduces friction, which not only reduces wear, but also reduces the effort required to propel your bike.

Dry lubes don't cause stickyness (unless you put far too much on) and are what you should be using for most of the summer. In wetter conditions, if you carry on using a dry lube, you will need to re-lube after every ride.

And you say "It's not "over lubrication", just "lubrication", with oil or any low viscous substance, including water." You should never be using just "oil", that is going to be wetter and stickier than even a decent "wet" chain lube.

 

[Fab Foodie]

As a very lazy motorcyclist I tried this for years. I used to spray tons of oil on the chain, much of it would accumulate in black grimy layers. On the rare occasions I cleaned off the gunk, it came up like new. If you don't want black gunk , you need to clean the excess off the chain after lubing it. I'm awaiting the outcome of this groundbreaking research with baited breath though, as I'm sure are tribologists everywhere.

Extra CC kudos for using the word 'Tribologist'....

 

[sasquath]

Type o oil/lubricant matters too, chucking bucket of water on the chain will wash away whatever lubricant is on the chain, using WD40 will have same effect. Chain lube should have high oil film shear point to cope with high pressures between chain parts nder heavy load. High torque low cadence riders in particular.

My suspicion is that OP is using 3in1 WD40 or other unsuitable lubricant. His observed longer life of not lubed but kept clean chain is simply effect of not removing high quality factory applied grease/lube.