Calling forum gun experts. How does a dummy firearm kill?

[MichaelW2]

There's a big market in replica reproduction Colts, Schofields, etc, and the ammo is freely available, so old but far from obsolete.

As you say, someone wanting a gun for self defence of just-in-case scenarios are unlikely to want one, plenty of enthusuasts do and the market is buoyant. 800 dollars of so gets you one, and a burglar shot dead with one is just as dead as with a modern .40 or 9mm automatic.

Cowboy Action Shooting is a recognised sport in USA and they use modern manufacture reproductions of old West style pistols which must be single action ( manual hammer cocking, not trigger activated cocking). Almost no one outside of CAS or enthusiasts uses single action pistols and these folks usually have a collection inc modern self defence pistols.
In some jurisdictions, esp big cities, black powder percussion pistols such as these occupy a gap in the legislation banning pistols.

The armourer involved is a CAS player. It is generally operated as a very safety conscious game.

As an aside, the guy who grabbed the pistol and declared it "cold" also worked on part 2 of The Crow ( not staring Brandon Lee)

 

[Smokin Joe]

I haven't heard about this theory. Do you remember where you found the documentary ? Interesting.

Youtube?

 

[Beebo]

I find it most ...bizarre is the politest word I can think of ... that guns and live ammo were stored and being used on set for 'fun' at the same time and in the same place as guns (real or dummy) and blank ammo.

I started the thread on the understanding this was a fake movie prop.
The question posed in the title is totally useless now as it becomes clear that it was simply a loaded pistol. Quite how the film producers arrived at a place where this could happen seems to be a complete failure on so many fronts.

 

[Arrowfoot]

As the more details emerge its beginning to shape out as a badly run show from cast to crew. The death cannot be blamed on a single person or to an unfortunate accident.

 

[cougie uk]

I started the thread on the understanding this was a fake movie prop.
The question posed in the title is totally useless now as it becomes clear that it was simply a loaded pistol. Quite how the film producers arrived at a place where this could happen seems to be a complete failure on so many fronts.

From what I've read now it appears that it's very common to have real guns on the set - but they're always guarded and handed out carefully after being checked repeatedly. Something like this can't happen with the fault of just one person - there's at least three people in the chain here that have messed up.

 

[DRM]

I haven't heard about this theory. Do you remember where you found the documentary ? Interesting.

It was on one of the Sky TV channels, was at least a couple of years ago, possibly longer
Edit: This was it, I think it can be seen on Amazon Prime JFK: The smoking gun
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2945784/

 

[cougie uk]

It was on one of the Sky TV channels, was at least a couple of years ago, possibly longer
Edit: This was it, I think it can be seen on Amazon Prime JFK: The smoking gun
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2945784/

Ooh ta. Will give that a watch.

 

[DRM]

Ooh ta. Will give that a watch.

No problem

 

[Cycleops]

It was on one of the Sky TV channels, was at least a couple of years ago, possibly longer
Edit: This was it, I think it can be seen on Amazon Prime JFK: The smoking gun
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2945784/

That’s one helluva gestation period for a Kennedy shooting theory. Don’t worry I’m sure there’s room for even more

 

[DRM]

That’s one helluva gestation period for a Kennedy shooting theory. Don’t worry I’m sure there’s room for even more

Not when it’s all part of a shushy shushy cover up, Lee Harvey Oswald silenced from the get go, how convenient

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

Fun fact - Caroline Kennedy was almost the third Kennedy assassinated - this time by the brave, brave IRA who planted a bomb in a car. http://www.nickelinthemachine.com/2008/04/holland-park-and-the-balcombe-street-gang/

 

[Hicky]

If you've been involved with firearms in the UK or abroad you'll see two very different approaches to what is considered safe. Infact you'll see similar if you apply it to the general public owning firearms and military.
Condolences to those involved.

 

[Pale Rider]

When my brother was in the RAF he found the American military, usually the USAF, to be slapdash in comparison.

For example, they would routinely throw helicopters around in a way which the RAF would only do in wartime.

If someone is going to jump out of a plane, in the RAF everyone on board either wears a parachute or is tethered, or both.

The Americans routinely have people wandering around inside in the plane who are neither wearing a parachute nor tethered, with the inevitable result someone occasionally falls out.

None of which has much to do with film sets, apart from indicating a cavalier attitude to safety procedures.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Ihaven't read ll of this thread - so apologies if this has been said before
but I read yesterday, in a few places but possibly all from a similar source, that there is a professional armourer on any set that will be using guns of any kind.
The last thing they want is the 'talent' doing anything to a gun after the armourer has confirmed that it is in the right state - 'cold' in this case.
The actor does exactly what the script says to do with the gun - and nothing else. The armourer is responsible for the gun and has it is sight at all times.

As far as 'why was he pointing a gun at someone anyway' this is normal - they often point the gun at the camera - and hence the camera operator as a main part of the script - such as the following scene

Based on this - something that should be very clear and strictly enforced - was not!

 

[MichaelW2]

Ihaven't read ll of this thread - so apologies if this has been said before
but I read yesterday, in a few places but possibly all from a similar source, that there is a professional armourer on any set that will be using guns of any kind.
The last thing they want is the 'talent' doing anything to a gun after the armourer has confirmed that it is in the right state - 'cold' in this case.
The actor does exactly what the script says to do with the gun - and nothing else. The armourer is responsible for the gun and has it is sight at all times.

As far as 'why was he pointing a gun at someone anyway' this is normal - they often point the gun at the camera - and hence the camera operator as a main part of the script - such as the following scene
View attachment 615246


Based on this - something that should be very clear and strictly enforced - was not!

Clint is pointing to a position off camera.