Calling forum gun experts. How does a dummy firearm kill?

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winjim

Smash the cistern
Absolutely Mr Rider. The don't need to be an expert, They don't need to know how to field strip a P226, or zero the sights on an M4, just the basic safety regime.

A morning of theory in the classroom, watching videos and being instructed by an expert, and an afternoon handling the vatious types of weapon they will be handling and practicing the drill would have cost very little in the grand scheme of a hollywood movie budget, and had they done so a woman would still be alive today.

The drill is very simple, very easy, and is the same for all. Show me its not loaded, show me there isn't one in the chamber/breech, and - where the weapons architecture permits - show me the barrel is clear. Then and only then, will i let you hand it to me. That is the same for all firearms, and is not difficult or unrealistic for a layman to master quickly. (Tilt) Cock-Lock-Look is as simple as remembering 3 words.

Im thick as two short ones and I understand it, so theres no reason why Baldwin - who thinks himself intelligent enough to have a high opinion about all sorts of things that no one asked his opinion on - should have any difficulty with the concept.

Interestingly, according to CNN, the assistant director who handed Balwdin the weapon had recently been dismissed from another production over allegations of poor weapons safety on his part.

Indeed, Baldwin's high opinions have had an unforseen twist. He was not a Trump fan, which is fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but his public pith taking and lampooning weren't in the best of taste and were rather puerile. Now the boot is on the other foot and Donald Trump Jr is taking revenge by selling "Guns don't kill people - Alec Baldwin does" T shirts and is doing a roaring trade. Selling very well, apparently.

Poor taste of the highest order, but hidden within is a lesson - be careful who you needlessly take the pith out of, because karma can turn the tabkes most unexpectedly.
Baldwin's portrayal of Trump is not the reason for his reputation as a massive dickhead. He already had that reputation for some time prior to the Trump presidency.

https://ihatebicyclists.com/2014/05...c-baldwin-is-just-another-dickhead-bicyclist/
 
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DRM

Guru
Location
West Yorks
I think that's what is supposed to happen. The actor is shown that it's empty.
That's what I hoped would be normal procedure, because just handing out a gun and shouting "Cold Gun" is in my opinion totally slapdash at best
 

Joey Shabadoo

My pronouns are "He", "Him" and "buggerlugs"
Even me being quite thick can tell a live round from a blank, if they can't tell that then they shouldn't even be touching the gun imho
1635364509121.png

Live or blank?
 

dodgy

Guest
Easy, remove the things from the gun and show them to the actor, then load it in front of the actor, not difficult is it.
A lot easier and a better control to have an armourer, which is actually a registered trade, to do it.
when I have an electrician doing work at my house I don’t get the mega out to test. I pay a qualified person.
Also, you vastly overestimate the familiarity and expertise of the layperson with firearms.
 

dodgy

Guest
Funny isn’t it, a group of cyclists in the uk, none of us armourers, but many of us think we know enough to revolutionise gun safety in the movie industry because we once handled a gun years ago.
The huge Twitter thread up there ^^^ y an actual armourer clearly states there were more than adequate controls. It was the people who let it down.
 
Was it Luis Herrera who used to go out training with a revolver in his back pocket ?
Where is he when we need expertise ?
 
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Beebo

Beebo

Firm and Fruity
Location
Hexleybeef
When I imagine an “armourer” I think of a mature, rather stern, ex military man who takes his job just a little bit too seriously. Not a young lady with dyed hair. That is clearly a conscious bias I’m holding.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....mourer-insurance-settlement-b1946611.html?amp

This may be indicative of the kind slap dash approach and risks the armourer was prepared to take.
She lent her motorcycle keys to two men who she knew were over the alcohol limit and one already had convictions for DUI.
One died following a crash and her insurance company paid out $50k to avoid further issues
 
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T4tomo

Legendary Member
A lot easier and a better control to have an armourer, which is actually a registered trade, to do it.
when I have an electrician doing work at my house I don’t get the mega out to test. I pay a qualified person.
Also, you vastly overestimate the familiarity and expertise of the layperson with firearms.
Funny isn’t it, a group of cyclists in the uk, none of us armourers, but many of us think we know enough to revolutionise gun safety in the movie industry because we once handled a gun years ago.
The huge Twitter thread up there ^^^ y an actual armourer clearly states there were more than adequate controls. It was the people who let it down.
Indeed. Suggesting the actors should get crash course trained in gun safety is ludicrous and laughable. Hire an expert and make sure they do their job. The more that emerges on this, the more of shoot show it looks. They had live ammo on the set - why the feck do the need live ammo anyway? - which wasn't locked away under control of the armourer. and between the armourer (allegedly) checking a gun was empty and handing it to the assist director, who handed it onto Baldwin with a shout of "cold", somehow a live round gets into it.

Serious negligence or something nefarious has occurred.
 

Lozz360

Veteran
Location
Oxfordshire
But it isn’t empty, it is loaded with blanks.
How would the actor know if they were blank or real?
If it is loaded with blanks it is not a “cold gun”. A cold gun is one that is not able to fire any round, live or blank. I understand that this tragic incident was a rehearsal; therefore, it was not necessary for the gun to go bang. It is still foolish to point, even a cold gun, at someone and pull the trigger.
 

winjim

Smash the cistern
Obviously I know the square root of bog all about guns but could it be the case that if he wasn't expecting the gun to be loaded then he wouldn't have been expecting the recoil and it could thrown the gun, and therefore projectile, in any direction, not necessarily where it was being pointed?
 
How much responsibility do the viewing public need to take?

The film industry is a massive commercial enterprise, geared up to make the films that sell, and they will be the ones people pay to watch.

Does something need to be done to address the apparent need for people to watch these violent events, and for the scenes to be as 'realistic' as possible?
 
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