Calling forum gun experts. How does a dummy firearm kill?

[Pale Rider]

But almost certainly not an old western pistol in obsolete calibre.

If you kept a gun in the glovebox for a genuine 'just in case' reason, I doubt you'd bother having the latest model.

Looks like there are plenty of new revolvers on sale, although I've no idea about calibres.

 

[DRM]

Wasn't this a plot point in JFK ?

Yes, but the last documentary I watched about JFK’s death was pinned on a negligent discharge from one of the secret service agents in the car following his, with previously unseen footage of the man responsible, basically Lee Harvey Oswald hit JFK with only one shot, despite firing three, the one that hit JFK in the throat, on hearing the shots, one of the secret service agents pulled a rifle from the floor of the car, described as having one up the spout ready to fire, he stood and turned ready to fire at the book depository and stumbled, pulling the trigger and shooting JFK in the head, all the angles lined up perfectly and the entry/exit wound did too, the whole thing being covered up, leading to all those decades of speculation and grassy knoll snipers, so even those who should know better can really, really get it wrong

 

[KnittyNorah]

The plot thickens.

Apparently the armourer 'left three guns on a cart' and the assistant director (about whom it was claimed an internal complaint had been made in 2019 concerning his attitude towards safety protocols) simply grabbed one of them and handed it to Baldwin, indicating that it was safe whereas in fact it contained live rounds.

Why would a gun on a film set contain live rounds? Why would guns be 'left on a cart' for anyone to - apparently - help themselves to? What on earth was going on, on that set?

Above details from here

 

[Drago]

But almost certainly not an old western pistol in obsolete calibre.

There's a big market in replica reproduction Colts, Schofields, etc, and the ammo is freely available, so old but far from obsolete.

As you say, someone wanting a gun for self defence of just-in-case scenarios are unlikely to want one, plenty of enthusuasts do and the market is buoyant. 800 dollars of so gets you one, and a burglar shot dead with one is just as dead as with a modern .40 or 9mm automatic.

 

[DRM]

It would seem that this production really was a disaster waiting to happen, I can’t see how they can continue with it after all this terrible publicity

 

[Beebo]

The plot thickens.


Why would a gun on a film set contain live rounds? Why would guns be 'left on a cart' for anyone to - apparently - help themselves to? What on earth was going on, on that set?

I can see a scenario where they are filming bullets hitting things. But you would expect that to be very tightly controlled with bullets counted in and out.
You can’t be mixing live and blank ammo. It’s madness.

 

[KnittyNorah]

It’s madness.

Madness indeed. A fatal madness. Why would anyone leave three guns 'out' together, when at least one of them was loaded with live ammunition, and at least one of them was meant to be loaded with blank ammunition?

 

[dodgy]

Hard to imagine this happening on a UK film set. The general familiarity and blasé attitude to guns (due to their relative ubiquity and availability ) in the US has to be a factor.

 

[dodgy]

I can see a scenario where they are filming bullets hitting things. But you would expect that to be very tightly controlled with bullets counted in and out.
You can’t be mixing live and blank ammo. It’s madness.

I think that ‘bullets hitting things’ is usually remote controlled pyrotechnics.

 

[cougie uk]

Yes, but the last documentary I watched about JFK’s death was pinned on a negligent discharge from one of the secret service agents in the car following his, with previously unseen footage of the man responsible, basically Lee Harvey Oswald hit JFK with only one shot, despite firing three, the one that hit JFK in the throat, on hearing the shots, one of the secret service agents pulled a rifle from the floor of the car, described as having one up the spout ready to fire, he stood and turned ready to fire at the book depository and stumbled, pulling the trigger and shooting JFK in the head, all the angles lined up perfectly and the entry/exit wound did too, the whole thing being covered up, leading to all those decades of speculation and grassy knoll snipers, so even those who should know better can really, really get it wrong

I haven't heard about this theory. Do you remember where you found the documentary ? Interesting.

 

[Alex321]

According to an article in The Times, it seems the gun in question, when not in use for filming, was being used "recreationally" for live target practice, and that is where the live round would have come from.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...JvOkapKIbaZN5HjSaCsnz_g0Ts#Echobox=1635095078

 

[KnittyNorah]

Hard to imagine this happening on a UK film set. The general familiarity and blasé attitude to guns (due to their relative ubiquity and availability ) in the US has to be a factor.

I'd call it an over-familiarity; those who are in reality familiar and skilled with something that can be extremely dangerous will, if they truly understand the 'something' and its risks, be careful never to become over-familiar with it, for that way leads to danger and worse.

I know that the culture of guns in the US, though, is unlike that anywhere else in the world and the sheer casualness with which the gun and the ammo is treated and handled on an everyday basis by many, many people is ... mind-boggling and, to me at least, frightening.

 

[T4tomo]

another oddity, the initial reporting and even that now, is talking about a prop gone, hence the initial speculation of someone being too close to blank discharge. This wasn't a "prop" gun. It was a gun, loaded with a live bullet. Its a absolute catalogue of negligence and farkwit-ery that ends up with live bullets, loaded in guns, on a film set.

The movie won't see the light of day, and an enormous lawsuit will be coming at all and sundry involved in this, and rightly so, not that that will bring the poor lady back.

 

[winjim]

Interesting thread here from a film armorer who seems perplexed that this could have happened under the usual safety protocols. Basically it should be impossible. And they don't consider a blank firing gun to be a prop gun.


View: https://twitter.com/sl_huang/status/1451797888158375937?t=8dySE53HG-X2mY8K4oLbjA&s=19

 

[KnittyNorah]

I find it most ...bizarre is the politest word I can think of ... that guns and live ammo were stored and being used on set for 'fun' at the same time and in the same place as guns (real or dummy) and blank ammo.

And that Twitter thread from the armourer confirms that it was indeed bizarre in the extreme, at least by his standards as a professional movie armourer.