Calling forum gun experts. How does a dummy firearm kill?

[KnittyNorah]

I listened to an article on the radio yesterday and they use many types of guns, from useless but real looking fakes to actual real guns firing blanks usually,depending on the effect needed. A real gun firing blanks will give a realistic recoil i think was the gist of it?

Blanks fired from a real gun give a very realistic recoil and flash, but are are still dangerous and need appropriate handling, cleaning etc. They often need more thorough cleaning and preparation. Yes, it's safer than having live ammunition flying around - almost anything is! - but they are not 'safe' as such.

sorry I should have said 'can' give a realistic recoil and flash - but depending on the type (of firearm. ammo, the use or not, and type, of BFA), they don't always do so, and some will need replacement barrels, special tooling and so on in order to do so,
Surely CGAI can do this perfectly acceptably nowadays, though?

 

[gbb]

Blanks fired from a real gun give a very realistic recoil and flash, but are are still dangerous and need appropriate handling, cleaning etc. They often need more thorough cleaning and preparation. Yes, it's safer than having live ammunition flying around - almost anything is! - but they are not 'safe' as such.

Quite right, I'm surprised anyone is surprised tbh (the assumption a blank round iis'safe'....you can kill someone with an air rifle !!!

 

[C R]

Is there episode of Colombo where the murderer commits the crime by substituting a live round for a blank?
If there isn't, there should be.

Edited to add: Just one more thing ...

Don't know about Colombo, but there's a New Tricks episode where an actor commits suicide on stage by interfering with the prop gun an actress uses to shoot him.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Quite right, I'm surprised anyone is surprised tbh (the assumption a blank round iis'safe'....you can kill someone with an air rifle !!!

I would've thought that CGI would be sufficiently advanced to be able to use replica, non-functional firearms for the filming with live people - and add the rest of the details later. But what do I know about CGI and making films? Less than nothing.

 

[Beebo]

Don't know about Colombo, but there's a New Tricks episode where an actor commits suicide on stage by interfering with the prop gun an actress uses to shoot him.

I imagine the stars of “inside no 9” are swiftly rewriting their latest script as it suddenly becomes old hat.

 

[Drago]

Watching t'news this morning it seems like the weapon was an olde style revolver which would fit with the films era. That means it's likely to be a Colt Peacemaker, Colt Army, or something very similar from another manufacturer.

While manufacture of that type of pistol dragged on for many decades and they were later available in smaller calibers, that most likely means a .45 or 44-40 from the earlier years of production - a big, heavy round (they also used them in light rifles of the era) so no doubt it went through the poor camera woman, making a nasty mess as it went, over penetrated then went off on its merry way and hit the director.

I know Baldwin is only an actor, but gun safety should nevertheless apply to him - you're handing me a weapon, show me its clear/loaded with blanks before I lay a finger on it, exactly the same way any other conscientuous recipient of a firearm should.

Also the person handing the weapon to Baldwin should themselves have insisted that they be shown it is clear/safe/loaded with blanks nefore they themselves took possession of it. And so on. Lots of negligence at every stage, from the person who prepped the weapon, through everyone that then hamdled it, right through to Baldwin.

It also seems the armourer is very young, not that age is a problem per se, and this is one of her first jobs as a fully qualified armourer in charge. Seems she was also recently voicing her concerns that she was not ready/experienced enough for the role. Nevertheless, she signed on and took the coin, so I think I can see which way the blame will lie on this one, even though Balwdin by rights - though not by law - should have been himself insisting the weapon is shown to be safe before laying a finger upon it. These are lessons written in the blood of less cautious people, yet no one here seems to have paid any heed to them.

Even worse for her, it seems that there had already been 2 negligent discharges in previous days, and concerns about firearm safety were so great that some crew members had quit rather than risk being on set. Doesn't look good for her.

 

[Pale Rider]

Doesn't look good for her.

Doesn't look good for Baldwin, either.

You can run through any number of gun handling manuals, but ultimately he lifted the weapon, pointed it at the lass, and pulled the trigger.

That will be quite hard to get out from under.

 

[MichaelW2]

For some reason, many experienced movie armourers passed up on this job, maybe too many guns and too much shooting for the money.
The fact that this was the second shooting of live rounds on set is beyond belief.
I can't think of any reason to have compatible live rounds on set.

 

[Pale Rider]

I can't think of any reason to have compatible live rounds on set.

It's New Mexico is it not?

Still an element of the Wild West about the place, so I suspect lots of people are routinely armed, particularly if they are going to a remote location.

 

[KnittyNorah]

I wonder how many people's hands that firearm passed through after leaving the armourer - presumably in an appropriate condition - and before arriving in the hands of Baldwin?

While the armourer being young and female shouldn't impinge on her capabilities for the job at all, I'm wondering if her age and sex made it difficult for her to impose her authority on older, macho directors, producers, actors and others? I can certainly see nasty tricks being played under the guise of 'it's only a bit of fun!' by more macho crew and cast on younger, less-experienced and less-macho ones, especially females. Long days out in the middle of nowhere on location gives prime opportunity for such unpleasant shenanigans and when it all goes more wrong than the tricksters ever imagined ...

@MichaelW2, I didn't know that experienced armourers had turned the job down. That says a lot and perhaps the reasons why will emerge in the inevitable investigation.

 

[MichaelW2]

It's New Mexico is it not?

Still an element of the Wild West about the place, so I suspect lots of people are routinely armed, particularly if they are going to a remote location.

But almost certainly not an old western pistol in obsolete calibre.

 

[dodgy]

Wondering if they'll just give up on this movie.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Wondering if they'll just give up on this movie.

Horrible as it might seem, the publicists et al probably relish the notoriety it is building up ...

 

[Drago]

I guess it depends on what happens. The Crow carried on after brandon Lee's death, but If Baldwin faces some kind of negligence manslaughter charge then that may be it. Even if they managed to finish the film, who would want to see it?

A very sad, tragic situation all round.

 

[dodgy]

With at least 2 NDs during filming, one involving a death of a key member of the production and a serious injury of another, together with other members of the production walking off site/set before the shooting, I wouldn't be surprised if it gets wound up.