Are we being forced to go electric?

[icowden]

I do think that we all need to think how we are going to move to electric in the coming years not all the reasons why we will not/cannot. As has been highlighted many times in this thread, we will be forced to go electric.

As has been highlighted you won't be forced to. You will still be able to drive your ICE car in the same way that you can listen to a vinyl record or play a VHS videotape. It will just be expensive and niche. There will be places that you cannot drive and you will likely find it harder to get fuel, which will be more expensive as demand decreases.

Embrace the change - it is coming whether we like it or not.

It is here.

PS I drive an ICE car currently and likely my next one will also be ICE unless electric becomes more compelling.

The main obstacle to faster EV take up is price. Nothing else. As more cars are made, this will drop.

 

[Buck]

As has been highlighted you won't be forced to. You will still be able to drive your ICE car in the same way that you can listen to a vinyl record or play a VHS videotape. It will just be expensive and niche. There will be places that you cannot drive and you will likely find it harder to get fuel, which will be more expensive as demand decreases.


It is here.

The main obstacle to faster EV take up is price. Nothing else. As more cars are made, this will drop.

OK. That’s semantics.

As I’ve mentioned before, “forced” is merely a term that describes how, through pricing, taxation and incentives, people’s choices are diminished and decisions are made.

I’m looking forward to getting an EV and don’t see any insurmountable barriers for me personally but respect that others are not in the same position either in terms of accepting the change or financial concerns.

 

[icowden]

OK. That’s semantics.

Not really. If you force someone to do something, you give them no choice, no free will.

As I’ve mentioned before, “forced” is merely a term that describes how, through pricing, taxation and incentives, people’s choices are diminished and decisions are made.

You are clearly using a different dictionary. Reducing people's choices is not forcing them to do something. Removing people's choices is. At best we can say that people are being strongly encouraged to change.

 

[classic33]

Tesla have dropped prices to take more market share, not slumping sales.

This has obviously hit used car values more compared to others

They're probably only one of two manufacturers in the world that can reduce prices significantly and still make a profit from each car.

All the legacy manufacturers are running up hundreds of millions in extra debt.

This is because all the world's car makers are being crucified in China ( world's biggest car market). Apart from Tesla and BYD. These two are in a price war in China.

There is talk that Ford, GM will retreat from China to concentrate on US sales- they are literally giving away their older ICE vehicles and losing over $20k per EV they sell.

It's no better for VW group in China where they used to get most of their profits. VW are being hammered.

In Germany where you would expect German cars would be top seller. Tesla has the Model Y number 1 seller. Model Y became the overall biggest seller across Europe for all vehicles last month.

There is no real slow down in EV sales. They're getting more popular

To protect it's share of the market.

 

[mjr]

is that really a benefit? Not much of a future where all workers are in their own little cells and all interactivity is via Zoom. I do one day a week from home and that is enough, [...]

Wait: you have a cell in your home??? Do you live in a prison?

I have a home office which I can leave as needed (flexitime) and I interact with people in real life outside of work. I quite like the reduced need to travel at peak times or by car and I'm deeply sceptical of people pushing EVs to bosses as a way to keep worker drones tapping in/out of HQ like in olden days.

Brilliant, spend £50 charging the ruddy thing, then another few quid vanishes into thin air because you don't use the car for a week.

O, the number of problems I've had with combustion cars because we don't use them every week! Brake discs often corrode while it stands unused so, at best, the first hundred miles are accompanied by periodic sch-sch-sch noises every time you touch the brakes even slightly. Birds poop on it when you're not looking and they seem to time it to just before you want to use it so you can go somewhere but it won't look neat unless you add time to wash it first. Batteries go flat on standing so we have a solar panel plugged in to recharge it, but every so often that seems to eat a fuse without us noticing so it stops charging and the car fails to start when we want it.

That last one would be worth a few quid a week to avoid even if it were true that EVs ate charge that fast, which I doubt they do! I wonder if we can get combustion vehicle (CV) monitors that connect to smart home systems yet, similar to the ones that lots of EVs have.

The only sensible conclusion is EVs are a non-starter unless you have a home charger on a good tariff.

Even that will probably change in time, similar to how early CV owners also kept tanks of suitable fuel in their garages (converted stables) but no-one does now.

 

[Andy in Germany]

is that really a benefit? Not much of a future where all workers are in their own little cells and all interactivity is via Zoom. I do one day a week from home and that is enough, I like the intellectual stimulus of actually working with people.

For many people it is. During lockdown lots of people of an extroverted nature were complaining about how stressful it is with no interaction, no people, et c, but when it ended there was no awareness that for a lot of people this is exactly what 'normal' life is like; they were expected to just get back with the programme.

 

[classic33]

O, the number of problems I've had with combustion cars because we don't use them every week! Brake discs often corrode while it stands unused so, at best, the first hundred miles are accompanied by periodic sch-sch-sch noises every time you touch the brakes even slightly. Birds poop on it when you're not looking and they seem to time it to just before you want to use it so you can go somewhere but it won't look neat unless you add time to wash it first. Batteries go flat on standing so we have a solar panel plugged in to recharge it, but every so often that seems to eat a fuse without us noticing so it stops charging and the car fails to start when we want it.

And somehow birds don't do that to any electric vehicle?

 

[mjr]

Sounds like you'll adapt to EVs easily then. I don't miss the standing around in petrol stations - and neither does my wallet.

I think those of us who use combustion vehicles also need to be aware how much worse the fuel station experience will get: as well as the stations becoming rarer as demand falls and the recent trend of staff asking if you want overpriced tat on every visit to the shop counter, we are likely to be required to pay in advance (already common in the US where fuel is cheaper and now spreading in Europe) and have the fuel pump counter screens playing adverts at us (also seen in the US, with allegations that the pump slows so you see all of the adverts if there's no queue detected). There's probably lot more enshootification which I've not yet heard about.

 

[fossyant]

I'm still awaiting the tie fighter noise when the EV is moving slowly rather than the hum.

 

[MrGrumpy]

I would hope we are all aware of what an ICE car can do range wise and the current limitations of electric and the infrastructure not being where it needs to be yet without repetition in this thread that just ends up being a tit for tat conversation with no progression.

I do think that we all need to think how we are going to move to electric in the coming years not all the reasons why we will not/cannot. As has been highlighted many times in this thread, we will be forced to go electric. For me, the how is somewhat in my control although accepting that many factors are not.

Embrace the change - it is coming whether we like it or not.

PS I drive an ICE car currently and likely my next one will also be ICE unless electric becomes more compelling.

I’m more concerned about heating my house than a n EV in the future but that’s for another thread !

EVs will be what they will be , to be honest if I was on my own , the car would have been gone along time ago !

 

[MrGrumpy]

I think those of us who use combustion vehicles also need to be aware how much worse the fuel station experience will get: as well as the stations becoming rarer as demand falls and the recent trend of staff asking if you want overpriced tat on every visit to the shop counter, we are likely to be required to pay in advance (already common in the US where fuel is cheaper and now spreading in Europe) and have the fuel pump counter screens playing adverts at us (also seen in the US, with allegations that the pump slows so you see all of the adverts if there's no queue detected). There's probably lot more enshootification which I've not yet heard about.

There will be plenty fuel stations around for a long time yet ! I’m not going to worry about that for at least 10-15yrs .

 

[chris-suffolk]

Sounds like you'll adapt to EVs easily then. I don't miss the standing around in petrol stations - and neither does my wallet.

But did your wallet enjoy buying the EV in the beginning? If you don't drive 1000's and 1000's of miles each year, then the total cost of ownership isn't so compelling, even given Diesel vs EV recharging costs.

 

[Jameshow]

I think those of us who use combustion vehicles also need to be aware how much worse the fuel station experience will get: as well as the stations becoming rarer as demand falls and the recent trend of staff asking if you want overpriced tat on every visit to the shop counter, we are likely to be required to pay in advance (already common in the US where fuel is cheaper and now spreading in Europe) and have the fuel pump counter screens playing adverts at us (also seen in the US, with allegations that the pump slows so you see all of the adverts if there's no queue detected). There's probably lot more enshootification which I've not yet heard about.

Petrol stations are a long way off closing as vans and lorries are well behind in uptake of EV so get yourself a diesel in 2029 and your sorted till 2049! 🤣

 

[mjr]

There will be plenty fuel stations around for a long time yet ! I’m not going to worry about that for at least 10-15yrs .

And the other problems like prepaying, more advertising and general enshootifying? That was far more the point I was trying to make. EV charging may well be in the attractive "landgrab" expansion phase while CV fuelling will be in the "extract all the money we can as it contracts" phase (aka the "flog horse until dead" phase).

 

[icowden]

I'm still awaiting the tie fighter noise when the EV is moving slowly rather than the hum.

Get an ID4 Definite tie fighter vibes when accelerating...