Are we being forced to go electric?

[steveinnorthants]

It's not compulsory to sit in a service station. There are plenty of charges just off the motorway. Tesla specialise in placing theirs in very nice places indeed.
You should really have made two stops, one on each leg. 180 miles is the best part of a 3 hour drive.


Easier to drive, very relaxing, all the power, mod cons, safety features and less stress.

Why less stress? Surely planning to stop and recharge, wondering if the charger will be working/have a big queue is far more stressful than having to find a petrol station (if indeed one is needed!).

 

[Buck]

“Electric cars are the future, but is the UK ready?”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66222554

 

[cougie uk]

Why less stress? Surely planning to stop and recharge, wondering if the charger will be working/have a big queue is far more stressful than having to find a petrol station (if indeed one is needed!).

Because for 99.9% of my journeys my car leaves the house with enough battery to happily get home again. Zero stress.
I only need to charge away from home on holiday - and in three years of having an EV I've never had to queue for a charger.

It's really nice not having to pump petrol on a wet cold and windy winters night.

 

[CXRAndy]

Tesla have dropped prices to take more market share, not slumping sales.

This has obviously hit used car values more compared to others

They're probably only one of two manufacturers in the world that can reduce prices significantly and still make a profit from each car.

All the legacy manufacturers are running up hundreds of millions in extra debt.

This is because all the world's car makers are being crucified in China ( world's biggest car market). Apart from Tesla and BYD. These two are in a price war in China.

There is talk that Ford, GM will retreat from China to concentrate on US sales- they are literally giving away their older ICE vehicles and losing over $20k per EV they sell.

It's no better for VW group in China where they used to get most of their profits. VW are being hammered.

In Germany where you would expect German cars would be top seller. Tesla has the Model Y number 1 seller. Model Y became the overall biggest seller across Europe for all vehicles last month.

There is no real slow down in EV sales. They're getting more popular

 

[icowden]

Why less stress? Surely planning to stop and recharge, wondering if the charger will be working/have a big queue is far more stressful than having to find a petrol station (if indeed one is needed!).

As @cougie uk said. Like him I have never had to do this, nor have I ever seen a big queue. I have had one Shell charger that I couldn't get to work, but I wasn't in a hurry and it wasn't an issue.

 

[icowden]

“Electric cars are the future, but is the UK ready?”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-66222554

It's one of those headlines.

Spoiler

The answer is "Yes"

Not even a well written article. The cheapest EV is not £30k it's £8k - the Citroen Ami. The SMart EQ for two is £22k. The MG4EV is £26k. The eFiat 500 is £28k. The lead is £28k, the Mini Electric £29k.

In the meantime, the British car industry is grappling with an even bigger problem - by 2030 it isn't going to have a market in the UK any more unless it goes electric.

Wake up BBC:-
https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ted to,company behind the Indian conglomerate.

Also, Musk is considering a Gigafactory in the NE, but this might have happened sooner if not for Brexit - which is another factor making EVs more expensive over here.

 

[lazybloke]

So what is EV range in winter?

According to Skoda as an example ... Heating and air conditioning can impact your range by as much as 30%. By reducing or turning them off, you can considerably increase your range.
https://www.skoda.co.uk/electric-hybrid-cars/electric-car-range-explained

Why? It has almost no effect on range.

You will get max 170 miles in the summer and 100 miles in the winter.

(that's a 40% drop).



Holy heck, "almost zero", 30% or 40%. Take your pick!!!
Clearly we all use our cars very differently, and therefore have very different experiences.

Time for an example: VW report a range of 328 miles for their ID4. If that lost 40% in winter, you'd be looking at sub-200 mile range.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

As long as you don’t mind buying a car from the Chinese govt…

AIUI current battery supply chains mean all electric vehicles are essentially bought from the Chinese govt

 

[icowden]

Holy heck, "almost zero", 30% or 40%. Take your pick!!!

You are comparing apples with chickens. The drop is not being caused by using the air conditioning. The drop is being caused by the temperature of the battery. Cold weather adversely affects the performance of the battery. Thus if you live in a country that sees very cold weather, it can be worthwhile having a heat pump fitted.

Time for an example: VW report a range of 328 miles for their ID4. If that lost 40% in winter, you'd be looking at sub-200 mile range.

Sounds about right. On a cold winters day. We don't get that many of those usually in the South of England.

 

[lazybloke]

You are comparing apples with chickens. The drop is not being caused by using the air conditioning.

Yes, i was highlighting the range problem, not the exact mechanism.

i'm aware that batteries need to be warm for best performance (and also for 'healthy' charging). I remember reading a year or so ago that ultra charging would be need pre-warming.

Has that tech made it to market in maritime climates?

 

[steveinnorthants]

Because for 99.9% of my journeys my car leaves the house with enough battery to happily get home again. Zero stress.
I only need to charge away from home on holiday - and in three years of having an EV I've never had to queue for a charger.

It's really nice not having to pump petrol on a wet cold and windy winters night.

But for me I get in my car every day knowing that I have enough fuel. Again zero stress. I also know that if i have to drive a longer distance I can ensure I can get there without refuelling.

Your second point is never an issue for me. I refuel in good time when its dry and in daylight and convenient. It takes me about 5 minutes. No stress whatsoever.

 

[Buck]

I would hope we are all aware of what an ICE car can do range wise and the current limitations of electric and the infrastructure not being where it needs to be yet without repetition in this thread that just ends up being a tit for tat conversation with no progression.

I do think that we all need to think how we are going to move to electric in the coming years not all the reasons why we will not/cannot. As has been highlighted many times in this thread, we will be forced to go electric. For me, the how is somewhat in my control although accepting that many factors are not.

Embrace the change - it is coming whether we like it or not.

PS I drive an ICE car currently and likely my next one will also be ICE unless electric becomes more compelling.

 

[cougie uk]

But for me I get in my car every day knowing that I have enough fuel. Again zero stress. I also know that if i have to drive a longer distance I can ensure I can get there without refuelling.

Your second point is never an issue for me. I refuel in good time when its dry and in daylight and convenient. It takes me about 5 minutes. No stress whatsoever.

Sounds like you'll adapt to EVs easily then. I don't miss the standing around in petrol stations - and neither does my wallet.

 

[All uphill]

I would hope we are all aware of what an ICE car can do range wise and the current limitations of electric and the infrastructure not being where it needs to be yet without repetition in this thread that just ends up being a tit for tat conversation with no progression.

I do think that we all need to think how we are going to move to electric in the coming years not all the reasons why we will not/cannot. As has been highlighted many times in this thread, we will be forced to go electric. For me, the how is somewhat in my control although accepting that many factors are not.

Embrace the change - it is coming whether we like it or not.

PS I drive an ICE car currently and likely my next one will also be ICE unless electric becomes more compelling.

There is a third option that needs to be mentioned on a cycling forum.

Give up car ownership.

 

[lazybloke]

There is a third option that needs to be mentioned on a cycling forum.

Give up car ownership.

Could be done, but would be helped if the UK was more bike friendly.

Although i believe Car ownership in NL is higher than here.

I'm not concerned with why. I'm interested to know if that might change in the next two decades .