Are we being forced to go electric?

[FishFright]

Wow. Are you suggesting that owning a car is fundamentally selfish? I think there are quite a few use cases where they are vital.

Fundamentally yes , given the state of the planet very much so.

It's not like you don't know.

 

[Jameshow]

Current Diesel Prices = £6.59 per gallon
Current Petrol Prices = £6.50 per gallon

So that's £6.50 (rounded for ease) per whatever your MPG is. I'd say worst is around 30mpg, best is around 50mpg. SO lets take an average of 40mpg. £6.50 for 40 miles.

Most EVs will do between 3 to 4 miles per KWH.

So best case* is:-

• 70p - 84p= Home charging on night tariff
• £3.20 to £4.20 = Home charging on normal tariff
• £4.90 to £5.60 = Public Slow charging
• £7.50 to £9.75 = Rapid or Ultra Rapid

*based on current weighted average charges for 49p per kwh for slow and 75p per kwh for fast as at June 2023 supplied by ZapMap. Note that each company has variations. BP Pulse for example is only 44p per kwh if you are a member. If your home energy is supplied by Octopus on Intelligent Octopus you can use Octopus electroverse for an 8% discount on all partnered public charging points etc.

So other than rapid or ultra-rapid, every type of charging works out cheaper than Diesel or Petrol. Not only that but prices at the moment are historically high. Home charges have dropped significantly at the start of July. We would therefore expect a similar drop in public charging prices, which would bring all charging back down to below the cost of petrol or diesel. Similarly in the last two years we have seen Petrol and Diesel prices up over £2 per litre, whereas now they have dropped back to around the £1.50 mark.

Remember that Rapid and Ultra-Rapid are not meant for daily charging. They are for a fast top up and the vast majority of EV drivers use them very little. And with things like Electroverse a Shell rapid charger at 85p per kwh becomes 55p per kwh.

Thus it is fundamentally dishonest to claim that Petrol and Diesel are cheaper than EV charging. They aren't. This is the sort of journalism you get in the Daily Fail.

But in the road charging is more expensive esp on motorways! Lefty lies!!

 

[Dadam]

Really do generators have dpf? And the same emmisions standards??

https://powerlinkworld.co.uk/articles-emission-standards/#:~:text=For most applications that utilise,to 100 hours per year

I really don’t know but they bloody well should. Thanks for the link. The third bullet point is badly written, not sure what it’s trying to say.

But even if not the point on efficiency still stands.

 

[Mike_P]

I really don’t know but they bloody well should.

There were many unimpressed when a generator had to be installed at Harrogate bus station to provide the charging power for a fleet of new electric buses that top up whilst unloading and loading / awaiting depature time as the cabled connection had not been completed.

 

[the snail]

And yet in Norway almost 100% is renewables.

Yeah but they'll all have frozen to death in a snowdrift by next spring.

 

[Pale Rider]

Thus it is fundamentally dishonest to claim that Petrol and Diesel are cheaper than EV charging.

No it isn't, as the 500 driver found, the dearer public chargers will cost you more than an economical petrol or diesel.

 

[cougie uk]

Yeah but they'll all have frozen to death in a snowdrift by next spring.

As I saw in Norway the other year.

 

[Deleted User]

You're correct , I missed out selfishness.

Just because you have no interest or need for driving/riding what gives you the right to judge others?

Neck, wind and in I would suggest.

 

[Deleted User]

Fundamentally yes , given the state of the planet very much so.

It's not like you don't know.

Unlucky!

You're on a hiding to nothing here boy.

 

[Gillstay]

Just because you have no interest or need for driving/riding what gives you the right to judge others?

Neck, wind and in I would suggest.

Because he shares the same planet and thus the same problems we have created. Simples !

 

[Deleted User]

Because he shares the same planet and thus the same problems we have created. Simples !

Unfortunately lots of people enjoy owning and running cars of different varieties and you can wave your 'selfishness ' stick around all you like it'll make little difference.

Do you drive?

 

[Deleted User]

Because he shares the same planet and thus the same problems we have created. Simples !

Judge away my friend, it falls on deaf ears unfortunately. 🤣

 

[Andy in Germany]

You're correct , I missed out selfishness.

Fundamentally yes , given the state of the planet very much so.

It's not like you don't know.

Selfishness; the lesser known fifth horseman of the apocalypse. Rarely seen because they insist on being the first.

 

[icowden]

No it isn't, as the 500 driver found, the dearer public chargers will cost you more than an economical petrol or diesel.

And as has been pointed out *multiple* times, that use case is an exception, not the norm.

On that basis all ICE cars are incredibly expensive to run and require regular fuel stops as Jeremy Clarkson used to drive a Ford GT that did 10 miles to the gallon and 130 miles to a tank. So for that 400 mile trip he would have had to stop 4 times and spend over £300 on fuel.

On a normal 200 mile round trip with a mid range ICE car you would not need to stop to refuel. On a normal 200 mile round trip with a mid range EV car you would just need to make sure that your destination parking had a power source. Worst case, you would need to stop for a quick top up (not a full charge, a top up) at a turbo charger on the way back. Every long journey I have done has had a free to use or low cost charger available at the end of it.

If you do 400 miles every day for your job then an EV is not the best choice for you currently - unless you have guaranteed destination charging on a rapid charger.

 

[Rusty Nails]

On a normal 200 mile round trip with a mid range EV car you would just need to make sure that your destination parking had a power source.

Plus a very long extension lead if it has no car park. When I was working I frequently went to business premises on the high street, or in a unit on an upper floor of a shared multi-story office building, or a school/care home with parking some way from the building. A lot of people do not work with companies with large offices. Many companies have large numbers of visitors per day and could not, or would not, cope with more than a small number asking to charge their cars, especially at times convenient to everyone.

Every long journey I have done has had a free to use or low cost charger available at the end of it.

I stayed in a small hotel a couple of weeks ago that did not. Also see above.

If you do 400 miles every day for your job then an EV is not the best choice for you currently - unless you have guaranteed destination charging on a rapid charger.

Or if money is tight, or you do not have home charging facilities.



I must admit to being deliberately awkward here, but that is just being Devil's Advocate to counter the over simplification you make in your post and assumption that other people's private and work car use is like yours.


The change to EV will only be acceptable to larger numbers when the infrastructure has been improved, and not by pretending that there are no potential complications for all but a lucky number who can afford it, have home charging and work with the right sort of conditions/companies.