Are we being forced to go electric?

[Pale Rider]

Practical range for both types of car is a lot less than advertised, and not just because the makers tell porkies.

I will not run my diesel car very close to empty. so the range is about a gallon's worth less than a full tank.

Equally, I reckon few EV owners will run routinely run their cars down to 10%, not least because battery care instructions do not recommend it.

There's a young couple on YouTube who've been posting about their Fiat 500 electric - a sensibly sized car for many of us.

They decided to do a 400+mile round trip, taking a commendably relaxed attitude to the journey.

Tootling along, they stopped four or five times for recharge top-ups.

Not surprising - the claimed range of the car is about 150 miles, practically that's 130 miles.

Taking a cautious attitude and avoiding any range anxiety - and not wanting to arrive home on fumes - meant all the stops were needed.

The guy, truthfully, said they didn't mind the stops, because they treated the whole thing as an adventure, even though there were short queues at some stations and a few broken chargers.

Oh, and using the chargers that weren't taken or broken meant the fuel cost was slightly more than a petrol car.

Electric, it's the future - but not just yet.

 

[icowden]

1. Not really. A 1.4cc Skoda. I am retired, have no need to or interest in getting from A - B quickly and can get around 60mpg on trips outside the city. (58mpg over 328 miles on a round trip to London last Sunday).

Not bad at all.

Good for you. I always go to the hospital by bus as it is on the bus route and parking is a faff, my local cinema does not have a car park and certainly no charging point, I gave up going to meetings when I retired, the FoD is not far from me so doesn't need refuelling...and I would never allow family members to pay for my car to be charged.

Remember the illustration was for a long trip not day to day driving.

On my touring trip round the West country a couple of weeks ago I filled up before the trip and didn't need to think about re-filling until a few days after I came home. Beat that if you can in this silly and pointless game of point-scoring.

I never think about refilling. Just plug in when I get home. The only time I have to do any planning at all is for a long (>200 miles) journey. For any other journey, the likelihood is that wherver I am going / parking there will be a charger. I'll be in the New Forest next week. I'll probably top up at the inlaws anf offer them some money (which they as usual will decline). Of course I could just drive two minutes down the road to the fast charger at the Shell Garage and read a book for 20 minutes. Or I could drive down to Milford and use the one on the seafront and go for a walk. Or I could go into Lymington and park up and have a hot chocolate or a walk round the shops.

I changed my car in January. Thought carefully about buying an EV, which will almost certainly be my next new car, but the practicalities of the sort of driving I do ruled EV out at this point in time. Nothing I have read in this thread tells me I made the wrong choice for me, not even the extremely enticing possibility of having a car that remembers the best seat position for me

Which is absolutely fair enough. The points we are "scoring" aren't points. They are refutations that charging is difficult or hard to find, or requires enormous effort beyond what you would put in for fuelling an ICE car. It's easier (apart from the 300 different apps for public chargers) than petrol.

 

[CXRAndy]

Very few EVs in Austria I noted, mostly Teslas. They’re happy with their diesels, it being cheaper than electricity. Strict and stringent tax rules too especially on personal mileage use of company cars (esp if over 6000km a year).
And many town dwelling Austrians live in flats with no OSP

Sales of new EVs 2022 Austria

 

[icowden]

Electric, it's the future - but not just yet.

Yes, your use case of a short range hatchback trying to a a grand tour is entirely representative of most people's use of cars and not at all contrived to try and make some sort of point about EVs not being ready for mainstream use yet.

PS. EVs are now mainstream

 

[vickster]

There are lots of EVs that don't look like EVs though. Teslas are an easy spot as they are obviously electric - but there's BMW and Audis etc etc that can be both. I'd bet you saw a lot of EVs and thought they were ICE.

Apparently not, uptake is much much lower than in the U.K. according to my friend who lives there.
And I can read badges on cars and also know what lots of EVs look like as I have been paying attention as I’m considering one (most are pig ugly to my eyes…as are many of the ICE SUVs they’re joining…it’s not just the SUVs either 🙄)

 

[icowden]

Apparently not, uptake is much much lower than in the U.K. according to my friend who lives there.

As of the end of June 2022, 126,925 electric vehicles (including PHEV and FCEV) were on the roads of Austria, corresponding to a share of the total population of 2.47%. Or 1.7% of all cars in Austria

In the UK there are an estimated 1325000 EVs and PHEVS on the road (probably a couple of FCEVs too) corresponding to a share of the total population of 2%. Or 4.1% of all cars.

So there are more EVs and PHEVs in Austria per person compared with UK but fewer as a percentage of all cars. The good news for Austria:-

The Electric Vehicles market in in Austria is projected to grow by 14.17% (2023-2028) resulting in a market volume of US$5.81bn in 2028

https://www.themayor.eu/en/a/view/flood-of-new-electric-cars-in-austria-9801

One of the issues is that:-

Indeed, two-thirds of all passenger cars in Austria are registered to companies or other legal entities. With electric cars, that proportion is even higher, though it varies from 79% in Burgenland to 89% in Salzburg in Vienna.

 

[Jameshow]

Practical range for both types of car is a lot less than advertised, and not just because the makers tell porkies.

I will not run my diesel car very close to empty. so the range is about a gallon's worth less than a full tank.

Equally, I reckon few EV owners will run routinely run their cars down to 10%, not least because battery care instructions do not recommend it.

There's a young couple on YouTube who've been posting about their Fiat 500 electric - a sensibly sized car for many of us.

They decided to do a 400+mile round trip, taking a commendably relaxed attitude to the journey.

Tootling along, they stopped four or five times for recharge top-ups.

Not surprising - the claimed range of the car is about 150 miles, practically that's 130 miles.

Taking a cautious attitude and avoiding any range anxiety - and not wanting to arrive home on fumes - meant all the stops were needed.

The guy, truthfully, said they didn't mind the stops, because they treated the whole thing as an adventure, even though there were short queues at some stations and a few broken chargers.

Oh, and using the chargers that weren't taken or broken meant the fuel cost was slightly more than a petrol car.

Electric, it's the future - but not just yet.

Not great if your visiting elderly parents on a weekend. That's 4 hours down the drain!

 

[Rusty Nails]

The points we are "scoring" aren't points. They are refutations that charging is difficult or hard to find, or requires enormous effort beyond what you would put in for fuelling an ICE car. It's easier (apart from the 300 different apps for public chargers) than petrol.

They do not require enormous effort, just a different sort of effort, and one that is not worth it for me. Other than home or office charging, which rules millions of drivers out, there is no way that charging an EV on a public charger is easier or quicker than the five minutes it takes me to refuel at a petrol station to give me up to another 600 miles driving. And no need to add a walk, read a book or have a snack to fill in the charging time.

I know that you are an enthusiastic EV-angelist, and I have nothing against your new religion, but not everyone is ready, can afford or needs to be converted yet.

 

[icowden]

Not great if your visiting elderly parents on a weekend. That's 4 hours down the drain!

Pale Rider's sums don't add up. If the trip was 400 miles the maximum they would need to have stopped is 3 times. That's one and a half hours. I suspect that most people don't live 400 miles away from their parents and if they do, they are unlikely to be making a day trip of it. Mine are 117 miles away and we usually stay somewhere overnight.

 

[cougie uk]

Not great if your visiting elderly parents on a weekend. That's 4 hours down the drain!

Because all elderly parents live 500 miles away from their kids at all times...

 

[cougie uk]

Practical range for both types of car is a lot less than advertised, and not just because the makers tell porkies.

I will not run my diesel car very close to empty. so the range is about a gallon's worth less than a full tank.

Equally, I reckon few EV owners will run routinely run their cars down to 10%, not least because battery care instructions do not recommend it.

There's a young couple on YouTube who've been posting about their Fiat 500 electric - a sensibly sized car for many of us.

They decided to do a 400+mile round trip, taking a commendably relaxed attitude to the journey.

Tootling along, they stopped four or five times for recharge top-ups.

Not surprising - the claimed range of the car is about 150 miles, practically that's 130 miles.

Taking a cautious attitude and avoiding any range anxiety - and not wanting to arrive home on fumes - meant all the stops were needed.

The guy, truthfully, said they didn't mind the stops, because they treated the whole thing as an adventure, even though there were short queues at some stations and a few broken chargers.

Oh, and using the chargers that weren't taken or broken meant the fuel cost was slightly more than a petrol car.

Electric, it's the future - but not just yet.

This isn't the normal use for a car though is it ? Commuting. Shopping. Day trips.

99.99% of my charging is on the driveway. Cheap as anything.

 

[Pale Rider]

Pale Rider's sums don't add up. If the trip was 400 miles the maximum they would need to have stopped is 3 times. That's one and a half hours. I suspect that most people don't live 400 miles away from their parents and if they do, they are unlikely to be making a day trip of it. Mine are 117 miles away and we usually stay somewhere overnight.

The practical sums do add up.

An EV charger doesn't magically appear when you reach a few percent charge left.

At least one stop was a top-up because the next charger en route was about 40 miles away, then a bit of anxiety kicks in - what if that one is shut/broken/won't work with a Fiat 500 etc?

For what it's worth the trip was a 200 mile each way overnighter for his mate's birthday party.

The sums, of course, were the driver's, not mine.

As I said, they were reasonably happy with how it went as an occasional journey.

But the guy did observe it was a lot more faffing about than using an ICE car, and about the same price, if not dearer.

99.99% of my charging is on the driveway. Cheap as anything.

As the above tale illustrates, EVs are a non-starter if you can't have a home charger - at more expense.

Lots of people do have space for a home charger, but on t'other hand lots of people live in smaller houses without garages, flats, terraced houses, and no doubt other dwellings for which a home charger is not practical.

 

[Jameshow]

Because all elderly parents live 500 miles away from their kids at all times...

No I don't say that but some do....

I'd need a car with a genuine 200mile all weather range to consider one, a fiat 500 ain't going to cut it. Not that I would want to drive one thay far!

 

[CXRAndy]

No I don't say that but some do....

I'd need a car with a genuine 200mile all weather range to consider one, a fiat 500 ain't going to cut it. Not that I would want to drive one thay far!

Nissan Leaf 62kW has genuine 200 mile winter range. 250 summer range.

For ultimate no brainer, the Tesla is the way to go. ~300 mile range. You drive your 200, either top up which is around 30 mins for recharge to 80-85%, good to return home.

Tesla Superchargers just work, plenty of availability on most journeys, and if in bad area, you can use any other rapid charger.

 

[youngoldbloke]

Because all elderly parents live 500 miles away from their kids at all times...

I no longer have parents to visit but until recently 360 mile journeys to visit one set of grandchildren were usual (and then we moved closer) The other set are 180 miles away and day trips are not unusual.