Are we being forced to go electric?

[Alex321]

It does, because the public chargers are at least as expensive, if not more so, than what ICE fuel would cost for the same journey.

No they aren't.

The ultra-rapid motorway chargers are more expensive than filling up with diesel or petrol at a filling station near home. But they are not more expensive than filling up with diesel or petrol on the motorway.

And public chargers off the motorways are much cheaper.

You'd have to be very committed environmentalist to pay more for your car and more for your journey just to do your bit to save the planet.

You would, but the latter just isn't happening in the real world.

 

[Alex321]

Thus it is fundamentally dishonest to claim that Petrol and Diesel are cheaper than EV charging. They aren't. This is the sort of journalism you get in the Daily Fail.

No it isn't, as the 500 driver found, the dearer public chargers will cost you more than an economical petrol or diesel.

It absolutely is.

You are not comparing like with like.

You are claiming that it is cheaper to run petrol or diesel because the most expensive way of charging an EV works out more per mile than the cheapest way of fuelling an ICE vehicle.

If you were comparing the cost of fuelling with petrol or diesel at motorway prices, or comparing to the cost of charging off the motorway, you might have a point.

 

[classic33]

And as has been pointed out *multiple* times, that use case is an exception, not the norm.

On that basis all ICE cars are incredibly expensive to run and require regular fuel stops as Jeremy Clarkson used to drive a Ford GT that did 10 miles to the gallon and 130 miles to a tank. So for that 400 mile trip he would have had to stop 4 times and spend over £300 on fuel.

On a normal 200 mile round trip with a mid range ICE car you would not need to stop to refuel. On a normal 200 mile round trip with a mid range EV car you would just need to make sure that your destination parking had a power source. Worst case, you would need to stop for a quick top up (not a full charge, a top up) at a turbo charger on the way back. Every long journey I have done has had a free to use or low cost charger available at the end of it.

If you do 400 miles every day for your job then an EV is not the best choice for you currently - unless you have guaranteed destination charging on a rapid charger.

Would that be the same GT that he put up for sale with less than 100 miles on the clock, and more time in the garage than being driven?

 

[icowden]

Plus a very long extension lead if it has no car park. When I was working I frequently went to business premises on the high street, or in a unit on an upper floor of a shared multi-story office building, or a school/care home with parking some way from the building. A lot of people do not work with companies with large offices. Many companies have large numbers of visitors per day and could not, or would not, cope with more than a small number asking to charge their cars, especially at times convenient to everyone.

Perfectly valid point. But I would be willing to hazard a guess that not far away from those buildings, there will be somewhere with a charger. Plus you get your step count up.

Or if money is tight, or you do not have home charging facilities.

That wasn't really the point of the post which was countering Pale Riders extreme example.

I must admit to being deliberately awkward here, but that is just being Devil's Advocate to counter the over simplification you make in your post and assumption that other people's private and work car use is like yours.

No. My assumption is that with small adjustments it isn't the massive issue that is being portrayed.

The change to EV will only be acceptable to larger numbers when the infrastructure has been improved, and not by pretending that there are no potential complications for all but a lucky number who can afford it, have home charging and work with the right sort of conditions/companies.

The infrastructure is improving all the time. The chief obstacle is not infrastructure but cost of purchase. Until there is a thriving second hand market and the laws of capitalism bring the cost down, EVs are unaffordable to a significant part of the population. It *is* getting better though.

 

[icowden]

Would that be the same GT that he put up for sale with less than 100 miles on the clock, and more time in the garage than being driven?

It would. The reason he didn't drive it anywhere is he had to spend more time in petrol stations than actually driving it.

 

[classic33]

It would. The reason he didn't drive it anywhere is he had to spend more time in petrol stations than actually driving it.

Less than the one tank required, going by your figures(130 fuel tank).

I'm sure it was the problems he had with it that limited the driving, and forced him to decide to sell it.

 

[Pale Rider]

It absolutely is.

You are not comparing like with like.

You are claiming that it is cheaper to run petrol or diesel because the most expensive way of charging an EV works out more per mile than the cheapest way of fuelling an ICE vehicle.

If you were comparing the cost of fuelling with petrol or diesel at motorway prices, or comparing to the cost of charging off the motorway, you might have a point.

Another point, don't all EVs use about 1% charge every 24hrs running the various systems?

Brilliant, spend £50 charging the ruddy thing, then another few quid vanishes into thin air because you don't use the car for a week.

The only sensible conclusion is EVs are a non-starter unless you have a home charger on a good tariff.

 

[Jameshow]

It absolutely is.

You are not comparing like with like.

You are claiming that it is cheaper to run petrol or diesel because the most expensive way of charging an EV works out more per mile than the cheapest way of fuelling an ICE vehicle.

If you were comparing the cost of fuelling with petrol or diesel at motorway prices, or comparing to the cost of charging off the motorway, you might have a point.

Not at all because I would want to refuel an Ev on the motorway rather than drive off the motorway to hunt down a cheaper charger.

I don't need to fill up with diesel on the motorway as I can do it at Morrisons at either end!

 

[youngoldbloke]

Not at all because I would want to refuel an Ev on the motorway rather than drive off the motorway to hunt down a cheaper charger.

I don't need to fill up with diesel on the motorway as I can do it at Morrisons at either end!

Indeed - I have only once or twice in over 50 years chosen, or had to refuel a car at a motorway services. It has almost always been possible to plan for a long distance trip by filling the tank beforehand, the only exception being on journeys from the south west of England to the Scottish Highlands.

 

[Rusty Nails]

My next door neighbours (a two car family) bought an EV last year. They both like driving it but when it became time to change their other car recently they opted for an ICE because, while they like driving their EV, they prefer the hassle free driving of the Kuga on holidays or on longer trips.

I know it is not a huge hassle, but decisions on which car to drive do not always depend on the huge issue, just a series of smaller issues.

 

[CXRAndy]

Another point, don't all EVs use about 1% charge every 24hrs running the various systems?

Brilliant, spend £50 charging the ruddy thing, then another few quid vanishes into thin air because you don't use the car for a week.

The only sensible conclusion is EVs are a non-starter unless you have a home charger on a good tariff.

Depends on the vehicle and security. If we switch off sentry on the Tesla, then drain is negligible. Sentry on uses 15 miles per day, but it has multiple cameras, ultrasonics

You can geo lock when you disable the sentry, like home or work(if secure)

I class it a worthy expense for what it does

 

[cougie uk]

Another point, don't all EVs use about 1% charge every 24hrs running the various systems?

Brilliant, spend £50 charging the ruddy thing, then another few quid vanishes into thin air because you don't use the car for a week.

The only sensible conclusion is EVs are a non-starter unless you have a home charger on a good tariff.

Nope. My EV doesn't have anything draining the battery - so what I put in the car - stays in the car.
The only sensible conclusion is that you're clutching at straws.
And I've never paid £50 for a charge - I think about £12 or so ?

It's lovely in winter to have the car wake up before you do - when I leave the house first thing it's already warm inside with the windows deiced.
Worth having an EV just for that ! No more nasty numb hands from scraping windows !

 

[potsy]

Nope. My EV doesn't have anything draining the battery - so what I put in the car - stays in the car.
The only sensible conclusion is that you're clutching at straws.
And I've never paid £50 for a charge - I think about £12 or so ?

It's lovely in winter to have the car wake up before you do - when I leave the house first thing it's already warm inside with the windows deiced.
Worth having an EV just for that ! No more nasty numb hands from scraping windows !

Do all EVs have this function?

 

[Gillstay]

Unfortunately lots of people enjoy owning and running cars of different varieties and you can wave your 'selfishness ' stick around all you like it'll make little difference.

Do you drive?

Yes and its still selfish esp with some peoples car choices and usage.

 

[Gillstay]

Judge away my friend, it falls on deaf ears unfortunately. 🤣

I never doubted for a minute, but I was not judging I was just pointing out that he did have a reasonable point.