Are we being forced to go electric?

[icowden]

As the above tale illustrates, EVs are a non-starter if you can't have a home charger - at more expense.

It doesn't illustrate that at all. You didn't mention whether this person had a home charger. It just illustrates that if you have a run around EV with a short range it's a bit more tricky to go long distances than if you have a mid-range car with a good range.

It also illustrates that a bit more work is needed to ensure that Zapmap or in car charger seeking software needs reliable feeds from chargers so that people know when they are in use or broken. Although that last bit is no dfferent to pulling into a service station to find out they don't have any diesel which has happened to me more than once.

Lots of people do have space for a home charger, but on t'other hand lots of people live in smaller houses without garages, flats, terraced houses, and no doubt other dwellings for which a home charger is not practical.

I agree. This is the biggest restriction on growth. Councils are installing more and more lamppost chargers etc but that also needs to be coupled with preferential rates for residents.

 

[Pale Rider]

It doesn't illustrate that at all.

It does, because the public chargers are at least as expensive, if not more so, than what ICE fuel would cost for the same journey.

You'd have to be very committed environmentalist to pay more for your car and more for your journey just to do your bit to save the planet.

 

[CXRAndy]

What lots of folk are forgetting that pollution is slashed everywhere you drive, no emissions. This is the biggest benefit

 

[Gunk]

What lots of folk are forgetting that pollution is slashed everywhere you drive, no emissions. This is the biggest benefit

But there are emissions, just less, electricity doesn’t come out of thin air. the pollution is just pushed elsewhere.

this is what generates your “Green” electricity when there is not enough wind, bloody great big Cummins Diesel generators

 

[classic33]

But there are emissions, just less, electricity doesn’t come out of thin air. the pollution is just pushed elsewhere.

this is what generates your “Green” electricity when there is not enough wind, bloody great big Cummins Diesel generators

View attachment 698844

They have nothing to do with running them though, so the pollution isn't anything to do with them.

 

[cougie uk]

It does, because the public chargers are at least as expensive, if not more so, than what ICE fuel would cost for the same journey.

You'd have to be very committed environmentalist to pay more for your car and more for your journey just to do your bit to save the planet.

The really fast chargers are more expensive than the slower ones.

Last time I looked Tesco had free charging but that was a year or two ago.

 

[Deleted User]

By scrutiny I mean scrutiny, google it if needed.

There are zero benefit ICE's except peoples vanity and stubbornness., its time is nearly done.

I don't have driving needs and have never owned a car, had a couple of small motorbikes briefly when younger though.

Vanity and stubbornness?

How about people who just don't like or want a modern car of any description, which one are they vane or stubborn?

I own 3 motorcycles a campervan and a scooter, the newest was made in '96 the oldest in '61 and all of them used regularly.

You on the other hand have nothing and are happy with your choices, I'll be exercising my right to choose for as long as possible thank you very much.

 

[Pale Rider]

Last time I looked Tesco had free charging but that was a year or two ago.

According to Mr Google:

Tesco used to let electric car drivers charge at their 7 kW chargers for free, but no longer (as of November 2022). Instead, you must now pay 28p/kWh to use their 7 kW chargers, 40p/kWh for their 22 kW chargers and 50p/kWh for their 50 kW chargers.

The cheapest rate is still - what - about three times the rate of home charging?

The top rate puts you into dearer than petrol territory, unless you drive a Roller.

 

[Dadam]

But there are emissions, just less, electricity doesn’t come out of thin air. the pollution is just pushed elsewhere.

this is what generates your “Green” electricity when there is not enough wind, bloody great big Cummins Diesel generators

View attachment 698844

False equivalence. Backup generators are backups, so are only used when needed. Therefore most of the time the energy used is green so emissions are still massively reduced.

What you’re also failing to factor in is that even if 100% of the energy used to charge EVs was generated by this kind of station, there would still be much less emissions. Those generators are optimised to run at a constant rate where they are most efficient and being large static installations it’s much easier to scrub particulates from exhaust.

Imagine one of those used solely to charge EVs. Miles driven per gallon used would be much higher than the same amount used in a number of diesel vehicles. So cleaner and more efficient.

 

[Gunk]

But not emission free as many claim

 

[FishFright]

But not emission free as many claim

They claim locally emission free , as has been posted here a ton of times.

 

[FishFright]

The benefit I derive from my £3.5k ICE is the current cost of owning /running it. Not vanity or stubbornness

You're correct , I missed out selfishness.

 

[Jameshow]

False equivalence. Backup generators are backups, so are only used when needed. Therefore most of the time the energy used is green so emissions are still massively reduced.

What you’re also failing to factor in is that even if 100% of the energy used to charge EVs was generated by this kind of station, there would still be much less emissions. Those generators are optimised to run at a constant rate where they are most efficient and being large static installations it’s much easier to scrub particulates from exhaust.

Imagine one of those used solely to charge EVs. Miles driven per gallon used would be much higher than the same amount used in a number of diesel vehicles. So cleaner and more efficient.

Really do generators have dpf? And the same emmisions standards??

https://powerlinkworld.co.uk/articl...plications that utilise,to 100 hours per year

 

[icowden]

It does, because the public chargers are at least as expensive, if not more so, than what ICE fuel would cost for the same journey.
You'd have to be very committed environmentalist to pay more for your car and more for your journey just to do your bit to save the planet.

Current Diesel Prices = £6.59 per gallon
Current Petrol Prices = £6.50 per gallon

So that's £6.50 (rounded for ease) per whatever your MPG is. I'd say worst is around 30mpg, best is around 50mpg. SO lets take an average of 40mpg. £6.50 for 40 miles.

Most EVs will do between 3 to 4 miles per KWH.

So best case* is:-

• 70p - 84p= Home charging on night tariff
• £3.20 to £4.20 = Home charging on normal tariff
• £4.90 to £5.60 = Public Slow charging
• £7.50 to £9.75 = Rapid or Ultra Rapid

*based on current weighted average charges for 49p per kwh for slow and 75p per kwh for fast as at June 2023 supplied by ZapMap. Note that each company has variations. BP Pulse for example is only 44p per kwh if you are a member. If your home energy is supplied by Octopus on Intelligent Octopus you can use Octopus electroverse for an 8% discount on all partnered public charging points etc.

So other than rapid or ultra-rapid, every type of charging works out cheaper than Diesel or Petrol. Not only that but prices at the moment are historically high. Home charges have dropped significantly at the start of July. We would therefore expect a similar drop in public charging prices, which would bring all charging back down to below the cost of petrol or diesel. Similarly in the last two years we have seen Petrol and Diesel prices up over £2 per litre, whereas now they have dropped back to around the £1.50 mark.

Remember that Rapid and Ultra-Rapid are not meant for daily charging. They are for a fast top up and the vast majority of EV drivers use them very little. And with things like Electroverse a Shell rapid charger at 85p per kwh becomes 55p per kwh.

Thus it is fundamentally dishonest to claim that Petrol and Diesel are cheaper than EV charging. They aren't. This is the sort of journalism you get in the Daily Fail.

 

[icowden]

You're correct , I missed out selfishness.

Wow. Are you suggesting that owning a car is fundamentally selfish? I think there are quite a few use cases where they are vital.