Gillstay
Veteran
Best check out the new Audi on Harrys garage.
Are we being forced to go electric?
- Thread starter gavroche
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Best check out the new Audi on Harrys garage.
Jameshow
Veteran
Link??
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
So you did indeed mean something ridiculously massive by "a jot".
The rest of us will continue to use the normal meaning, and consider an improvement of 9 times in 15 years to be rather more than a jot.
55 Wh/l in 2008 to 450 Wh/l in 2020, with the biggest bulk of that improvement coming between 2017 and 2020.
If you want something totally unrealistic before you consider it to have improved "a jot" that is your choice, but makes your argument look very silly.
Jameshow
Veteran
E Tron? 0.27 with w mirrors 0.28 without ....🤔
cougie uk
Guru
Apparently even the Skoda Enyaq is more aero than that ??
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/electric/these-are-10-most-aerodynamically-efficient-evs-sale-today
Pale Rider
Legendary Member
Rubbish.
My Bosch ebike battery from 2009 (although they were making them earlier) has an energy density of about 200w/h per kg.
Teslas. and all other EVs, have about the same density.
Thus improvements in the last 15 years or so can be measured in jots.
Merc's experimental 1,000 mile EV also uses batteries with a density of about 200w/h per kg, although the pack is much smaller.
Chinese maker CATL recently unveiled a semi-solid state battery which has a density of 500/h per kg.
Great, but there are no details of charging rates, projected life, cost, and crucially, how long it will be before production.
The general view is the technology is costly.
EVs, which are already too dear, can ill afford to hike their prices further.
Of course the tech companies hype up these prototypes- why shouldn't they?
But falling for that hype is another thing.
That doesn't surprise me. If you test drive a VW ID4 and a Tesla Y, you would buy the Tesla Y. Every time.
I like my ID4, but once you get past the funky headlights and mood lighting you are left with a car with a very poor, often nonsensical software system that doesn't receive regular updates of much use.
For example:-
When you approach the driver's door of a Tesla, the Tesla senses the card in your pocket and knows it's you .It adjusts the drivers seat and wing mirrors to your preferred position. The car's configuration is set up for you and is ready to go. The radio station that you like is playing. The air con is set to your preferences etc. Google maps is ready to go.
When you approach the driver's door of an ID4, it wakes up. You sit in the drivers seat which is manual adjustment only (unless you have top spec). The screen loads once you touch the power button or push the brake. After 5-10 seconds, the software boots and asks you to confirm which user is driving the car. Then you have to tap on a disclaimer notice - both interactions with noticeable lag. Then you have to manually adjust your mirrors - even the wing mirrors which are digitally controlled. It does set the air con to your preference. But not the radio. For that, you must tap on the menu button, then audio, then favourites then scroll left, then choose your station, then press the menu button again to exit the menu.
Then you press app connect to connect to Android Auto which can take up to 5 minutes.
The experience is frankly horrible in comparison, and begs the question as to why VW don't appear to have a software user group. The only real function that the user profile has is to lock all other users out of being able to use the mobile app to check charging, set air con etc.
There is so much missing from the ID4 when compared to the Tesla. The Tesla has an automatically opening boot - on the ID4 that's for top spec only. The Tesla has a huge well for cables etc, the ID4s is tiny.
The only thing I like better about the ID4 is the seat comfort.
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roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
Source please - doesn't tally with info I can find.
Physics World:
https://physicsworld.com/a/lithium-ion-batteries-break-energy-density-record/
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
Well, if it takes multiple 'software' button presses to change a radio station... good god.
There is a scroll button on the steering wheel but it's not very easy to use and doesn't move between your presets, only between "all radio stations" which as it is DAB means that it can take many many clicks to move from say Radio2 to Magic.
fossyant
Ride It Like You Stole It!
- Location
- South Manchester
Silly stuff like that would stop me buying a car. My car has a big screen, but it has intuitive menu buttons to hand, double tap this button, press that multi-mode button get's you X on the car's systems, all without looking for it, or looking at the screen.
biggs682
Itching to get back on my bike's
- Location
- Northamptonshire
All I do in our Nissan note is open the day via the remote and start it up and off we go ....
Technology
@Pale Rider
You posted an assertion that energy density of Li-ion batteries hasn't improved, and the only evidence you posted was your ebike of 2009 has a similar figures to those used by Tesla! Not sure if you've read any of the links refuting this particular gem of cobblers but one of them (arstechnica) discusses multiple other factors which determine suitability. Energy density is the headline figure but there are a lot of trade-offs in choosing a battery, as with any other technology choice.
Tesla famously uses commodity 18650 cells in large numbers, because the energy density is good enough for the application, and they've chosen the combination of price and other factors such as availability as the best compromise for their products.
You posted an assertion that energy density of Li-ion batteries hasn't improved, and the only evidence you posted was your ebike of 2009 has a similar figures to those used by Tesla! Not sure if you've read any of the links refuting this particular gem of cobblers but one of them (arstechnica) discusses multiple other factors which determine suitability. Energy density is the headline figure but there are a lot of trade-offs in choosing a battery, as with any other technology choice.
Tesla famously uses commodity 18650 cells in large numbers, because the energy density is good enough for the application, and they've chosen the combination of price and other factors such as availability as the best compromise for their products.
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