Are we being forced to go electric?

[yello]

Yeah just like an EV in the middle of the countryside where they bring a diesel generator to get it to a proper charging station.

You've watched Long Way Up then?

 

[Alex321]

It can't. Petrol and Diesel are not efficient.

The fact they aren't efficient doesn't mean further improvements are impossible. When I first started drive, a car that could exceed 30mpg was a pipedream. Now, may fairly large family estate normally returns over 50mpg, 60 on a long motorway run. And small hatchbacks can get 70mpg.

I'm sure further improvements are still possible.

I can't see any issues with only having 5 hydrogen fuel filling stations left in the UK (down from 14 at the peak of hydrogen).


It'll be fab until it runs out of fuel. There is zero interest in hydrogen in the face of EVs that can fuel *anywhere*.

Agreed hydrogen is a dead end, the manufacturers trying that route are really trying to extend the life of their ICE engines.

 

[yello]

manufacturers trying that route are really trying to extend the life of their ICE engines.

Is that a bad thing? Genuine question.

 

[Alex321]

Is that a bad thing? Genuine question.

If hydrogen were genuinely a cleaner fuel overall than petrol or diesel, and was feasible at the required scale it might not be a bad thing.

 

[icowden]

I will counter by how do you know hydrogen vehicles won't have those same warnings installed, how do you know that if (big if) hydrogen is adopted as the HGV fuel of the future all/most/some fuel stations will have them?

You cannot fuel with hydrogen at home. Nor at your parents house when you visit. Hydrogen is still explosive and has to be freighted round the country. You have to drive somewhere to get it.

I don't see anything different about running out of electricity/petrol/diesel/hydrogen the warning signs are/will be there, it's the user that chooses to ignore them & pushes the limit, it's always been the case & I can't see that changing.

the difference is that with electricity you start with a full tank.

Maybe it's me with my head in the sand, but I simply cannot see that EV's are the solution, they just present another set of different problems,

they just reduce the number of problems. all we need is sockets.

 

[CXRAndy]

You cannot fuel with hydrogen at home. Nor at your parents house when you visit. Hydrogen is still explosive and has to be freighted round the country. You have to drive somewhere to get it.


the difference is that with electricity you start with a full tank.

they just reduce the number of problems. all we need is sockets.

I cheekily dropped a 75ft cable out of a 2nd storey French Chateau to trickle my Model S .So just to prove to my wife it would charge overnight. I've fully charged at a campsite from a 3 pin plug. Charging is everywhere

 

[cougie uk]

One of the many things that haven't been thought through. I remember one bad winter up here when the roads came to a standstill with people stuck in their vehicles for well over 12 hours. A reasonably full tank of petrol/diesel would let them start their cars every so often to stay warm. Can you imagine doing that with a battery that would already be suffering in the cold.

You'd be sitting in a nice warm EV with cosy seats.

You'd not be asphyxiating yourself like people have done with ICE cars.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-ne...die-in-vehicles-trapped-by-pakistan-snowstorm

 

[Andy in Germany]

Because naturally no-one buying a Semi truck would want to know what payload it could carry and how far it could take it. They'd be far more interested in how fast it can go from 0-60.

FWIW the Tesla Semi has a range of about 800km (500 miles) with a cargo of around 37,000kg.

And in the latest update:-

Truckers *have* to take a 30 minute rest break after 8 hours of driving or about 400 miles.
https://topelectricsuv.com/news/tesla/tesla-semi-all-we-know-feb-2022/

(ignore the date on the link it has been updated on 7th July 2023)

I'm assuming those are Tesla's claims, and they would warrant a certain amount of scepticism and quantification, it still ignores the basic problem.

 

[icowden]

I'm assuming those are Tesla's claims, and they would warrant a certain amount of scepticism and quantification, it still ignores the basic problem.

I must be missing something. What is the basic problem?

 

[CXRAndy]

One of the many things that haven't been thought through. I remember one bad winter up here when the roads came to a standstill with people stuck in their vehicles for well over 12 hours. A reasonably full tank of petrol/diesel would let them start their cars every so often to stay warm. Can you imagine doing that with a battery that would already be suffering in the cold.

This happened in the USA last year, the EV drivers coped fine in the blizzards. Correctly you mention the very rare occasion with being trapped for that long- climate change has made lots of parts of the world warmer, wetter winters

 

[DRM]

Because naturally no-one buying a Semi truck would want to know what payload it could carry and how far it could take it. They'd be far more interested in how fast it can go from 0-60.

FWIW the Tesla Semi has a range of about 800km (500 miles) with a cargo of around 37,000kg.

And in the latest update:-

Truckers *have* to take a 30 minute rest break after 8 hours of driving or about 400 miles.
https://topelectricsuv.com/news/tesla/tesla-semi-all-we-know-feb-2022/

(ignore the date on the link it has been updated on 7th July 2023)

When a HGV drivers hours are up they have to stop, it’s not always possible to stop at a charge point, sometimes the best option is a lay-by, or at the side of the road on an industrial estate

 

[DRM]

Of course it could be done, but why would they? It would be a pointless addition.

They already have, don’t Tesla’s have ludicrous mode! to make it set off like scalded cat

 

[Gillstay]

There's a very good youtube
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Q7nAYjAJY
where the Chairman talks about the issues, on searching for that one I have just seen there is what I assume is an update
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6_qAta3Gk8
(not watched it yet) he understands the issues about producing the hydrogen, however surely it's only that it hasn't been fully investigated yet? If the HGV manufacturers also got on board then the development speed would increase. I would have thought the same weight issue applies to HGV's as it does to JCB?

@CXRAndy Many EV owners do not seem to appreciate the highlighted point, I know it's not as high in the UK but in Poland 79% of the Electricity is produced via fossil fuel

It may well be so but its going to change quite quickly.

 

[icowden]

They already have, don’t Tesla’s have ludicrous mode! to make it set off like scalded cat

Yes, but we are talking tiny increments really.

A normal Tesla S does 0-60 in 3.1 seconds. In Ludicrous mode it does it in 2.5 seconds. In Ludicrous Plus it can do it in 2.3 seconds. In Plaid mode 1.9 seconds. Of course the main difference with Plaid is for track racing as it will get the Tesla to 200mph maintaining 1000hp.

The point is that it's fast anyway because of good efficient design. The modes are just tweaks for the rich.

 

[FishFright]

Because naturally no-one buying a Semi truck would want to know what payload it could carry and how far it could take it. They'd be far more interested in how fast it can go from 0-60.

FWIW the Tesla Semi has a range of about 800km (500 miles) with a cargo of around 37,000kg.

And in the latest update:-

Truckers *have* to take a 30 minute rest break after 8 hours of driving or about 400 miles.
https://topelectricsuv.com/news/tesla/tesla-semi-all-we-know-feb-2022/

(ignore the date on the link it has been updated on 7th July 2023)

I think it's Ford* are trialling electric semi's too. IIRC it was on a Veritasium video on YT.

*or GM