Are we being forced to go electric?

[fossyant]

Now imagine that it was fitted with 360 degree cameras, lane keeping, collision detection and medical emergency detection like the vast majority of EVs. It wouldn't have allowed the car to go off the road and would have slammed the brakes on before it could hurtle into the school.

I'm not sure that using a tragedy under investigation for hypothetical point scoring is the right thing to be doing.

Oh - and you do know that an ordinary ICE Land Rover Defender weighs between 2 and 3 tonnes and can reach 60mp h in between 5 and 10 seconds dependent on spec?

Wasn't the defender fitted with most of that tech anyway ? Collision detection etc. etc.

 

[icowden]

Yeah just like an EV in the middle of the countryside where they bring a diesel generator to get it to a proper charging station.

Seriously. You can charge and EV at any house. Anywhere there is an electrical socket. There is no excuse for running out in the middle of the countryside.

 

[Mo1959]

Yeah just like an EV in the middle of the countryside where they bring a diesel generator to get it to a proper charging station.

One of the many things that haven't been thought through. I remember one bad winter up here when the roads came to a standstill with people stuck in their vehicles for well over 12 hours. A reasonably full tank of petrol/diesel would let them start their cars every so often to stay warm. Can you imagine doing that with a battery that would already be suffering in the cold.

 

[icowden]

Many EV owners do not seem to appreciate the highlighted point, I know it's not as high in the UK but in Poland 79% of the Electricity is produced via fossil fuel

And yet in Norway almost 100% is renewables.

 

[icowden]

One of the many things that haven't been thought through. I remember one bad winter up here when the roads came to a standstill with people stuck in their vehicles for well over 12 hours. A reasonably full tank of petrol/diesel would let them start their cars every so often to stay warm. Can you imagine doing that with a battery that would already be suffering in the cold.

Yes. People have done this. Can't remember which interstate but it regularly has freezing conditions and people get stuck there for many hours. The people in Tesla's kept warm, watched videos and chillaxed having plenty of battery left to get off the interstate and charge. The heating and entertainment doesn't use much battery at all compared to having to burn diesel or petrol. It's moving the car that uses the most electricity.

https://futurism.com/the-byte/tesla-passengers-warm-18-hour-traffic-jam

EVs are better at this.

 

[icowden]

This is also why Musk focused on acceleration and automation even when he was presenting the Tesla truck and claiming it could "beat railways economically"; he wanted -desperately wanted- to make sure no-one considered range and payload.

Because naturally no-one buying a Semi truck would want to know what payload it could carry and how far it could take it. They'd be far more interested in how fast it can go from 0-60.

FWIW the Tesla Semi has a range of about 800km (500 miles) with a cargo of around 37,000kg.

And in the latest update:-

• In production now; deliveries underway
• Launched in a 500-mile, dual-motor variant
• Charges up to 70% level in 30 minutes and consumes less than 2 kWh per mile
• Approximately 2.5 times cheaper per mile than a diesel semi-truck

Truckers *have* to take a 30 minute rest break after 8 hours of driving or about 400 miles.
https://topelectricsuv.com/news/tesla/tesla-semi-all-we-know-feb-2022/

(ignore the date on the link it has been updated on 7th July 2023)

 

[Deleted member 26715]

Seriously. You can charge and EV at any house. Anywhere there is an electrical socket. There is no excuse for running out in the middle of the countryside.

There is no excuse for running out of petrol/diesel either but according to https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money...fuel-land-three-points-100-fine-AA-warns.html 10,500 do yearly in the UK that are attended by the AA, possibly RAC, Green Flag, mum & dad have their numbers as well. If you want to read the Daily Fail version which says 827,000 do, but it doesn't say over what period, or where in the world, https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3212222/More-800-000-drivers-year-run-fuel.html Unfortunately putting your head in the sand & saying it can happen to a Hydrogen vehicle but can't happen to an EV is unsound.

 

[icowden]

Unfortunately putting your head in the sand & saying it can happen to a Hydrogen vehicle but can't happen to an EV is unsound.

That's not what I said. What I said was that you are always closer to somewhere to charge an EV than you are to somewhere you can fuel with hydrogen or even petrol or diesel. EVs try really hard to not let you run out of charge. The majority will continuously remind you and point you at a nearby available charger.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

I'm not saying it's not possible to make any vehicle Hydrogen powered.

The issue is producing enough of the hydrogen without burning fossil fuels to make it.

95% of hydrogen is created by steam methane reformation.

Pointless to burn more fossil fuels to create a clean fuel. The other way it takes an enormous amount of energy by using electrolysis.

Then there is transportation, again far more expensive than moving petrol/diesel

The even bigger issue is that hydrogen is waaaay less efficient than batteries.

You need 2-3 times as much electricity to power a vehicle by hydrogen produced by electrolysis than you do to power it with a battery.

Which means you need 2-3 times as much generation capacity.

 

[classic33]

Because naturally no-one buying a Semi truck would want to know what payload it could carry and how far it could take it. They'd be far more interested in how fast it can go from 0-60.

FWIW the Tesla Semi has a range of about 800km (500 miles) with a cargo of around 37,000kg.

And in the latest update:-

Truckers *have* to take a 30 minute rest break after 8 hours of driving or about 400 miles.
https://topelectricsuv.com/news/tesla/tesla-semi-all-we-know-feb-2022/

(ignore the date on the link it has been updated on 7th July 2023)

Suppose they(Tesla) can just do an update to counter the software glitch that on their truck is causing the screens to shut down, normally reports speed, safety warnings, battery level, and the lights to switch off. Much as we're told they do with their cars. Meaning they don't require a special fleet of specialist recovery vehicles. Five currently in their fleet.

 

[lazybloke]

Yes. People have done this. Can't remember which interstate but it regularly has freezing conditions and people get stuck there for many hours. The people in Tesla's kept warm, watched videos and chillaxed having plenty of battery left to get off the interstate and charge. The heating and entertainment doesn't use much battery at all compared to having to burn diesel or petrol. It's moving the car that uses the most electricity.

Just to refer to some recent posts, it's accelerating the car that uses the most electricity.

https://futurism.com/the-byte/tesla-passengers-warm-18-hour-traffic-jam

EVs are better at this.

Yes, although both cars referenced in the article were young models in a high-end marque. As always , it's the older, smaller more commonplace cars that might not fare so well. PArticularly at as they get beyond 10 years from manufacture.

And I need an EV owner to explain what it means when their car is "idling".

 

[Deleted member 26715]

That's not what I said. What I said was that you are always closer to somewhere to charge an EV than you are to somewhere you can fuel with hydrogen or even petrol or diesel. EVs try really hard to not let you run out of charge. The majority will continuously remind you and point you at a nearby available charger.

I will counter by how do you know hydrogen vehicles won't have those same warnings installed, how do you know that if (big if) hydrogen is adopted as the HGV fuel of the future all/most/some fuel stations will have them?

I don't see anything different about running out of electricity/petrol/diesel/hydrogen the warning signs are/will be there, it's the user that chooses to ignore them & pushes the limit, it's always been the case & I can't see that changing.

Maybe it's me with my head in the sand, but I simply cannot see that EV's are the solution, they just present another set of different problems,

 

[CXRAndy]

There's a very good youtube
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Q7nAYjAJY
where the Chairman talks about the issues, on searching for that one I have just seen there is what I assume is an update
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6_qAta3Gk8
(not watched it yet) he understands the issues about producing the hydrogen, however surely it's only that it hasn't been fully investigated yet? If the HGV manufacturers also got on board then the development speed would increase. I would have thought the same weight issue applies to HGV's as it does to JCB?

@CXRAndy Many EV owners do not seem to appreciate the highlighted point, I know it's not as high in the UK but in Poland 79% of the Electricity is produced via fossil fuel

Because they have vast reserves of coal. The UK from what I spotted yesterday 60% renewable energy production.

 

[CXRAndy]

Yeah just like an EV in the middle of the countryside where they bring a diesel generator to get it to a proper charging station.

But it's only a top up to get them to the charger not a full charge . In practice the same as bringing a gallon of fuel.

In reality running an EV flat is the stupidest thing a driver can do. There are so many warning way before you get near to empty. On the Tesla toy get warnings appear at 60 miles left.

 

[Alex321]

Seriously? In comparison to some of the other software controls that are on EV's restricting the acceleration would be simply, it's just a limiter placed on the motor, but the meerkat departments don't want that as it can be used as a selling point over ICE

Of course it could be done, but why would they? It would be a pointless addition.