Are we being forced to go electric?

[icowden]

As manufacturers improve fuel efficiency we buy bigger and heavier cars. Insane.

Not really. We have established that "fuel efficiency" is a nonsense and come up with a better idea to replace liquid fuels. At the moment it is in its infancy and the battery tech is big and heavy. I have no doubt that in 10 years time we will be looking at lighter batteries that are faster to recharge and hold more power, when compared to current batteries.

We should all be on bikes or driving around in 1000kg 75mpg cars by now!

My car doesn't do any miles to the gallon :-(

 

[classic33]

Not really. We have established that "fuel efficiency" is a nonsense and come up with a better idea to replace liquid fuels. At the moment it is in its infancy and the battery tech is big and heavy. I have no doubt that in 10 years time we will be looking at lighter batteries that are faster to recharge and hold more power, when compared to current batteries.


My car doesn't do any miles to the gallon :-(

How can 195 years be described as being "in its infancy"?
Battery powered electric cars predate petrol powered cars.

 

[Alex321]

How can 195 years be described as being "in its infancy"?
Battery powered electric cars predate petrol powered cars.

The modern technology is in its infancy still. The fact that a totally different technology was used 195 years ago isn't very relevant.

 

[icowden]

How can 195 years be described as being "in its infancy"?
Battery powered electric cars predate petrol powered cars.

But modern EV batteries are relatively recent. There was no conception of such a thing nor any demand until recently. The first commercial lithium-ion battery was created in the 1990s. It wasn't until 2012 that Tesla reformulated the components of their batteries, introducing aluminium and greatly reducing the reliance on cobalt, thus making an effective battery that could store a lot of power and properly fuel a vehicle.

Electric vehicles might have been around for some time, but they were generally things like milk floats powered by a cluster of lead-acid batteries, thus only capable of short range and low speeds.

Modern EV batteries have really only been researched for 10 to 11 years as opposed to the 120 or so years of refining and improving petrol engines and their fuel.

Now that there is demand, battery technology is improving very rapidly, with the ultimate aim being solid state batteries which don't rely on rare earth minerals.

 

[classic33]

But modern EV batteries are relatively recent. There was no conception of such a thing nor any demand until recently. The first commercial lithium-ion battery was created in the 1990s. It wasn't until 2012 that Tesla reformulated the components of their batteries, introducing aluminium and greatly reducing the reliance on cobalt, thus making an effective battery that could store a lot of power and properly fuel a vehicle.

Electric vehicles might have been around for some time, but they were generally things like milk floats powered by a cluster of lead-acid batteries, thus only capable of short range and low speeds.

Modern EV batteries have really only been researched for 10 to 11 years as opposed to the 120 or so years of refining and improving petrol engines and their fuel.

Now that there is demand, battery technology is improving very rapidly, with the ultimate aim being solid state batteries which don't rely on rare earth minerals.

Panasonic and LG don't supply batteries for Tesla then?

 

[icowden]

Panasonic and LG don't supply batteries for Tesla then?

Panasonic is partnered with Tesla and worked on battery development with them. Tesla's R&D department worked with Panasonic's R&D department to develop effective EV batteries. But it was Tesla that required the development from Panasonic, thus they get the credit. More recently Tesla have partnered with LG and CATL as they look at other ways to improve their batteries and the advances being made by those companies which have been prompted by the competition for EV batteries that was in turn created by Tesla.

So yes. Tesla are responsible for the evolution of modern EV battery tech. They were the catalyst that has driven worldwide change. All the other manufacturers suddenly looked up, went "ducking hell - we'd better get an EV developed" and the result is where we are now.

 

[CXRAndy]

In global terms UK is a tiny market. Car manufacturers have have relied on China to make the vast majority of their profits.

However since China announced at least 5 years ago about new emissions regulations that came into effect this summer.

Legacy makers have been literally giving away their cars before the deadline because they don't meet the new standards.

This has cost them hundreds of millions in lost profits which they rely on. There are millions of unsold cars from legacy makers sat.

Those legacy makers that have EVs to sell are struggling to sell any great quantity of their EVs because Tesla and BYD are hugely popular, so others aren't getting a look in.

I found out that if you buy a cheap ICE in china you might not be able to register it because China only release a small amount of registrations per month and it's sold to the highest bidder auction.

 

[DRM]

I’ve said it before, but the actual electronics that EV’s use are not new, nor is the way the AC motor drives the thing, fork trucks have been using AC drive systems for about 35 years, it’s old technology now , it works, it’s reliable, the only difference between a car & an FLT is the car uses a much higher voltage to drive the motor, the way it works is identical.

 

[icowden]

I’ve said it before, but the actual electronics that EV’s use are not new, nor is the way the AC motor drives the thing, fork trucks have been using AC drive systems for about 35 years, it’s old technology now , it works, it’s reliable, the only difference between a car & an FLT is the car uses a much higher voltage to drive the motor, the way it works is identical.

Agreed. It's the battery tech that is the game changer and where the research is going in. That and the software development to control and automate the vehicle.

 

[classic33]

I’ve said it before, but the actual electronics that EV’s use are not new, nor is the way the AC motor drives the thing, fork trucks have been using AC drive systems for about 35 years, it’s old technology now , it works, it’s reliable, the only difference between a car & an FLT is the car uses a much higher voltage to drive the motor, the way it works is identical.

The motor in use, by Tesla, is a direct copy of the one patented by Nikola Tesla. So again not that new.

 

[DRM]

Agreed. It's the battery tech that is the game changer and where the research is going in. That and the software development to control and automate the vehicle.

Again, materials handling lead the way with autonomous vehicles, there are warehousing trucks available now that do not need a driver, and put away, take down pallets as required, it does people out of a job, including Mr Nobody who apparently is responsible for every damaged fork lift in the UK!, cos it wasn’t me wot did it honest! When the truck looks like it’s been hit by a train, At least that is what the operators say

 

[CXRAndy]

The motor in use, by Tesla, is a direct copy of the one patented by Nikola Tesla. So again not that new.

True, but clever design to make a lightweight small motor with output drive, should not be dismissed.

Maybe using the original idea as the company name is probably the highest compliment

 

[Jameshow]

True, but clever design to make a lightweight small motor with output drive, should not be dismissed.

Maybe using the original idea as the company name is probably the highest compliment

Aka a brushless motor?

 

[classic33]

True, but clever design to make a lightweight small motor with output drive, should not be dismissed.

Maybe using the original idea as the company name is probably the highest compliment

It wasn't the original product that gave them the company name. That they got/took from Nikola Tesla, the inventor.

The motor is just another thing that isn't as old as some believe. Even Nikola Tesla foresaw advances in production technology that would affect his design, and allowed for them in his patent application.

 

[icowden]

Interesting interview with Ford CEO acknowledging that building an EV isn't just about changing the drive train.

https://thedriven.io/2023/06/09/leg...re-than-switching-drive-trains/#disqus_thread