Are we being forced to go electric?

[FishFright]

No, I DO NOT want enforced breaks, it's not my vehicle, I'm saving nothing, at the end of a days work, I want to go home, not hang about, why should I be home late?

I DO NOT want to breath those rancid fumes.
I DO NOT want kids to have to breath the pollution
I DO NOT want to share the roads with vans driven by people desperate to get home in a hurry
I DO NOT believe that in all those hours out the house that you can't find some electricy

I DO want you to consider what is best for everyone

 

[DRM]

On the flip side everyone else thinks they are a long way behind their rivals:-
https://slate.com/business/2023/01/toyota-electric-vehicles-slow-why-hybrid-prius-bz4x-rav4.html#:~:text=Toyota did not mass-market,established an electric car office.
https://jalopnik.com/how-did-toyota-end-up-so-far-behind-on-electric-vehicle-1850013131
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesm...ot-it-wrong-on-electric-cars/?sh=24895cae686f

Those articles aren’t looking at the bigger picture of what Toyota has in it’s portfolio of businesses, they have the know how across various industries , and have for decades, it can’t be much of a step up to dump a petrol engine, fit a bigger battery/motor combo, and bingo, a fully electric Prius/Auris/Corolla

 

[cougie uk]

Those articles aren’t looking at the bigger picture of what Toyota has in it’s portfolio of businesses, they have the know how across various industries , and have for decades, it can’t be much of a step up to dump a petrol engine, fit a bigger battery/motor combo, and bingo, a fully electric Prius/Auris/Corolla

Everything is always more complicated than you think.

I think it's quite the job to refit a production line for new technology.

 

[icowden]

it can’t be much of a step up to dump a petrol engine, fit a bigger battery/motor combo, and bingo, a fully electric Prius/Auris/Corolla

I presume then you think that Musk's multibillion dollar investment was a waste of time when he could have bought an old Toyota Corolla and stuck some Duracell in it?

Is it just possible that it's not quite that simple? That Tesla is now worth north of 600 billion dollars, suggests that it's a little trickier than you imagine. Tesla started developing electric cars for the mass market in 2010. They now have 13 years of experience, data and knowledge with cars on the road for 11 years.

VW have announced an investment of 180 billion Euros in an EV platforms going forward. They started developing their EV platform in 2016 and it took 4 years before one reached the market in 2020.

Mercedes are doing the same, investing 40 billion euros in EV development. They started developing their EV platform in 2016 and it took 3 years before one reached the market in 2019.

Toyota invested nothing until the end of 2021 when they announced an investment for 35 billion dollars. They don't have a successful EV on the market, and it may be several years before they do. In that time, they will have fallen further behind their rivals.

In spite of those timeline delays, Toyota doesn’t plan on ramping up bZ4x production until 2025. Perhaps counterintuitively, the auto manufacturer now plans to halt its current EV projects and reboot its overall strategy in the sector, looking to cut production costs and seek inspiration from Tesla’s approach to manufacturing. Still, that may be welcome news to those who hope that Toyota will pursue more aggressive EV-manufacturing targets than it had planned previously—even though the corporation still hasn’t committed to phasing out its gas fleet before midcentury, as other major carmakers have

 

[cougie uk]

I DO NOT want to breath those rancid fumes.
I DO NOT want kids to have to breath the pollution
I DO NOT want to share the roads with vans driven by people desperate to get home in a hurry
I DO NOT believe that in all those hours out the house that you can't find some electricy

I DO want you to consider what is best for everyone

I was passed by a couple of classic motorbikes and cars at the weekend on the bike. Yuk. The fumes off of them. Nasty things.

 

[CXRAndy]

I was passed by a couple of classic motorbikes and cars at the weekend on the bike. Yuk. The fumes off of them. Nasty things.

I used to think that of the RD350LC spewing smoke on full acceleration back in 1982

 

[rogerzilla]

I remember when you could taste the lead bromide in city centres.

 

[All uphill]

I'm sure lots of us remember having black snot after a day in one of the big cities.

 

[CXRAndy]

I'm sure lots of us remember having black snot after a day in one of the big cities.

That is still the same in London now today.

My daughter accidentally left her window open and when she returned her windowsill was black with pollution in the air. Her boyfriend regularly comments of black snot after cycling

 

[CXRAndy]

I presume then you think that Musk's multibillion dollar investment was a waste of time when he could have bought an old Toyota Corolla and stuck some Duracell in it?

Is it just possible that it's not quite that simple? That Tesla is now worth north of 600 billion dollars, suggests that it's a little trickier than you imagine. Tesla started developing electric cars for the mass market in 2010. They now have 13 years of experience, data and knowledge with cars on the road for 11 years.

VW have announced an investment of 180 billion Euros in an EV platforms going forward. They started developing their EV platform in 2016 and it took 4 years before one reached the market in 2020.

Mercedes are doing the same, investing 40 billion euros in EV development. They started developing their EV platform in 2016 and it took 3 years before one reached the market in 2019.

Toyota invested nothing until the end of 2021 when they announced an investment for 35 billion dollars. They don't have a successful EV on the market, and it may be several years before they do. In that time, they will have fallen further behind their rivals.

In this fast developing tech world, remember Kodak?

World leader to zero in just a few years

 

[icowden]

In this fast developing tech world, remember Kodak?
World leader to zero in just a few years

Yep - that's what should concern most people. This may not be as much of a gradual shift as people think. Tech changes fast.

 

[figbat]

In this fast developing tech world, remember Kodak?

World leader to zero in just a few years

And ironically, a Kodak engineer invented the first consumer digital camera in 1975, but Kodak wouldn't pursue it fearing the impact on its own mighty film business. Other big film makers seemed to pivot OK - Fuji diversified into optical and digital imaging, Konica hooked up with Minolta in a similar way, even Ilford continues as a 'boutique' monochrome film and printing resource.

Then there's Nokia, steadfastly eschewing the smart phone along with Blackberry, stubbornly sticking to the physical keyboard.

 

[FishFright]

Yep - that's what should concern most people. This may not be as much of a gradual shift as people think. Tech changes fast.

Totally agree
There are pair of photos taken in from the same viewpoint in Manhattan in 1907 and 1917 * , in the first photo it was a sea of horses and the odd gentleman's gadabout but by 1917 there was nary a horse to be seen and kerb to kerb cars.

*Could have been 1917 and 1927

And that was with virtually no car infrastructure in place at the earlier date.

 

[rogerzilla]

I think there will be a tipping point when petrol stations go bust. It won't take a huge drop in sales to make them unprofitable. They are already rare compared to 30 years ago.

 

[Gillstay]

Yep - that's what should concern most people. This may not be as much of a gradual shift as people think. Tech changes fast.

Or possibly the climate, as that may change fast as well. An would affect most people. Fortunately many don't seem to care.