Are we being forced to go electric?

[Jameshow]

Because in the future cars will sell power back to the grid....

Your situation isn't my situation, so you cannot say my scenario isn't valid!

 

[FishFright]

I’ll believe it when I see it. Most of the cobalt is in the Congo. The big companies will buy it much cheaper from there thank you please.

The supplies in the DRC are running out and rising in price , hence why other sources are coming online.

 

[cougie uk]

Storm Arwen. Many were without power for days.

And you don't think that the increase in these storms mean we need to get away from fossil fuels ???

 

[FishFright]

And you don't think that the increase in these storms mean we need to get away from fossil fuels ???

Not when there's people in this world who have lifestyles, priorities man !

 

[Milzy]

And you don't think that the increase in these storms mean we need to get away from fossil fuels ???

You have been fed propaganda. We are in a brilliant time to be alive now. If the Earth was cooling we would really be worried. Dumping waste into our oceans is far more damaging than I/C engines.

 

[DRM]

Not when there's people in this world who have lifestyles, priorities man !

or people that have to get to work, not everybody lives close to their place of employment, the days of living in a house near to the local pit/mill are long gone, doesn't help either when the buses don't bother turning up as per the timetable, so no wonder people drive to work

 

[classic33]

And you don't think that the increase in these storms mean we need to get away from fossil fuels ???

Or away from private vehicle ownership?

 

[icowden]

There's no sensible reason for a Tesla to have a top speed of 250mph and 0-60 in 2 seconds.
https://www.tesla.com/roadster

There is no sensible reason for the Lamborghini Aventador LP 780-4 Ultimae to have a top speed of 220mph and 0-60 in 2.8 seconds. The roadster isn't a family hatchback. It's a supercar.
https://www.tesla.com/roadster

I can definitely see a future for cars like the new Citroen Ami, which is now available with £2799 deposit and £19.99 a month.
https://www.citroen.co.uk/ami
28mph top speed is plenty for commuting.

Yes, I never travel on any 30 or 40mph roads around here, and I am sure that all the other people driving wouldn't be at all annoyed.

The batteries are lighter, the cars are easier to park (when did cars get so fat?) and because they have much lower power requirements there's far less drain on our power infrastructure. Modern cars weigh twenty times as much as the drivers. To claim that's an environmentally sound choice is greenwash.

It's more environmentally sound than diesel and petrol.

A Tesla is a vanity purchase, just like any other luxury car. It's not achievable for everyone to have one and our economy would fall to bits if people with the crap jobs no longer had access to vehicles to get to work in.

A Tesla Roadster, Tesla S or X is a vanity purchase just like any other high end luxury car. A Tesla 3 or Y is attainable by a significant part of society but not everyone. Like a Jaguar XJS or high end Merc or an Audi TT. There will be cheaper Teslas and prices will come down with time.

There will be a critical mass where everyone is driving at 28mph and we will all be safer when we do, because it's been proven time and again that speed and enormous vehicles are the two things that kill people.

Where is this proof? Driver error and incapacity is usually what kills people.

If covid has taught us anything, it is that people with crap jobs are what the economy really depends on.

Not sure that the doctors and nurses would count their jobs as being "crap".

 

[Arrowfoot]

Just to be abundantly clear that I see EVs as inevitable for obvious reasons. But some correction is in order due to misinformation that I have seen here from small number of EV zealots.

ICE, the internal combustion engine is an engineering marvel and it made the region, country and the World more accessible to everyone. It served us well for over 2 centuries. It is reliable and it ranged from tiny to the marquee vehicles with the likes of Ferrari and the rest. Unfortunately it has one massive defect - emission and even the catalytic convertor can only do so much.

The electric motor is the apron to the ICE wedding gown. Nothing sexy despite the often repeated smooth driving mantra which tell us some are not aware of what ICE can do from mid range onwards.

Over 90% of the EV technology in the last 25 years is on the battery and charging. The electric motor is the same from the mobility scooters to the EVs. There is also nothing about a battery being sexy. No 5 or 6 star hotel would allow its valets to park an EV no matter how expensive at the lobby forecourt normally reserved for the marquees.

In essence no EV can match an ICE in terms of performance, range, reliability, utilities with 2 exception - cost of fuel and emission. We already covered issues of convenience and affordabilIty in regard to the EVs.

 

[Arrowfoot]

Now for erroneous claims about ICE manufacturers not coming to the party. The Japanese, American and European car manufacturing entities are driven by profits and will go where there is demand and a reasonable margin. Elon Musk received close to half a billion USD Govt grant to start Tesla. He never talked about the electric engine or that it was smooth. He talked about batteries and self driving capabilities. Despite his mouth he is a visionary.

Toyota launched the Prius 26 years. It was hybrid involving Ice and electric motors as technology to hold a sustainable charge had not matured. It was the right step og evolution. The Prius became a success and was mass produced for 90 markets over the years. Nearly every Toyota model now has a hybrid version. They are likely to dominate the EV when they see they clear their planned threshold.

Another erroneous comment is that ice manufacturers are using ICE chassis for EV vehicles. What does an EV chassis supposed to look like? Ground clearance is an issue for certain customers and not confined to just EVs.

The point is profit entities are not religious or dogmatic about their products. They will deliver what a customers. The challenge now is to make EV more affordable with cross subsidising.

Elon Mask received a govt grant close to half a billion USD to build Tesla.

 

[chris667]

Yes, I never travel on any 30 or 40mph roads around here, and I am sure that all the other people driving wouldn't be at all annoyed.

It doesn't matter how annoyed everyone is. If most electric cars have a top speed of about 30mph and ICE ones are no longer available everyone will be doing 30mph.

The writing is on the wall for ICE vehicles but electric cars with the performance of petrol ones are not viable for most people to have.

A Tesla Roadster, Tesla S or X is a vanity purchase just like any other high end luxury car. A Tesla 3 or Y is attainable by a significant part of society but not everyone. Like a Jaguar XJS or high end Merc or an Audi TT.

Depends how you define a vanity purchase. I would say a Jag XJS, high end Merc or Audi TT are all vanity purchases.

I have a 2006 Vauxhall, which cost £850 last year - that wasn't a vanity purchase. Flogging it because I don't use it enough actually but if I need to buy another car if my circumstances change, I'm not spending much more than that. Modern cars are not sexy, they are consumer goods like washing machines.

There will be cheaper Teslas and prices will come down with time.

In the state the global economy is in, I'd love to hear you explain how this is going to happen. What's the cheapest EV now? Ten year old Nissan Leaf? What are the chances it will still work when it's the age my Vauxhall is now?

Where is this proof? Driver error and incapacity is usually what kills people.

Have a look at this - bigger engined cars kill more people, and there is proof (quote if you don't want to read the article):

Britain’s Department for Transport (DfT) should be “really concerned that some [car] sizes are twice as likely to kill pedestrians compared to others,” says transport policy advisor Adam Reynolds.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlto...in-u-k-cities-urge-transport-data-scientists/

As to speed, I direct you to this - in particular this quote direct from the article:

The risk of injury increases exponentially with impact speed. A crash at 30mph has twice as much energy and destructive potential as a crash at 20mph.

https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/speed/speed-and-injury

The evidence is clear that small, slow vehicles are faster than big, "high end" vehicles with a ludicrous top speed that makes them inherently incompatible with any sort of active travel.

Not sure that the doctors and nurses would count their jobs as being "crap".

Have you heard the news about nurses being on strike because of crap conditions? And the record numbers of people leaving both of those professions? Bless you but you're living in dreamland if you think people doing those jobs think they're any sort of cushy number.

Here's something - another quote from the article below if you aren't interested in reading the whole article:

In a snap 24-hour survey of NHS charities this week, six reported having a food bank, with around 550 nurses among an estimated 5,000 NHS staff using them monthly.

https://rcni.com/nursing-standard/n...rvey-offers-glimpse-of-scale-of-crisis-192186

 

[chris667]

Presumably, you think commuting means only driving in cities, for a few miles.

That isn't the case for a lot of us. Probably for most who don't walk or use public transport.

Here are at least two places in each direction on my commute to work where I get over 28mph on my bike. And if I'm taking the car, it is about 16.5 miles, with only about 2 miles of that in 30 or 20 limit roads, and 5 miles on a 70 limit dual carriageway.

Yes, but see my answer to @icowden above. You are assuming you'll have any sort of choice in the matter.

 

[chris667]

or people that have to get to work, not everybody lives close to their place of employment, the days of living in a house near to the local pit/mill are long gone, doesn't help either when the buses don't bother turning up as per the timetable, so no wonder people drive to work

We can't expect the same standard of living that we've had for the past few decades. It's just another inconvenient truth.

I suspect moving to a house in the country won't be nearly as attractive a proposition for people that have to work in large towns in the future. Hybrid/remote working is a possibility for people like that, but driving to the nearest big city every day? Forget it.

The biggest employer in the nearest city to me (Derby) is, I believe, the hospital. Mrs667 went for an operation a couple of years ago. The nurses have to pay to park to do their shifts. We were private so we got free parking (well, actually, I ended up giving my free passes to tired looking nurses, but sssh!).

It would be ridiculous to get a job there if you could only get there by car - parking could literally make your day two hours longer.

Something is going to give because what we have now is simply not viable.

 

[CXRAndy]

I too sometimes lay awake at night thinking about EVs

Wonderful vehicles

 

[jowwy]

Or away from private vehicle ownership?

so you or your family members dont own cars then?? if you do, are you advising them to ditch their ownership for public transport??

If not, then why are you on here expecting others to ditch their ownership, of you and your family are not ditching yours ??