Are we being forced to go electric?

[Alex321]

It doesn't matter how annoyed everyone is. If most electric cars have a top speed of about 30mph and ICE ones are no longer available everyone will be doing 30mph.

That is not remotely likely to happen.

The Ami is very much an exception - I can't see any reason why it might become the norm.

The writing is on the wall for ICE vehicles but electric cars with the performance of petrol ones are not viable for most people to have.

Right now, maybe not, but in 4-5 years time, they almost certainly will be.

Depends how you define a vanity purchase. I would say a Jag XJS, high end Merc or Audi TT are all vanity purchases.

No, a vanity purchase is something you buy mainly for the purpose of showing off your wealth/taste. Those are bought more because people want the performance than to show off.

I have a 2006 Vauxhall, which cost £850 last year - that wasn't a vanity purchase. Flogging it because I don't use it enough actually but if I need to buy another car if my circumstances change, I'm not spending much more than that. Modern cars are not sexy, they are consumer goods like washing machines.

Many are, agreed.

In the state the global economy is in, I'd love to hear you explain how this is going to happen.

It is pretty well completely inevitable. The technology is improving rapidly, and as there is more and more competition, together with economies of scale in production, that is sure to push prices down

What's the cheapest EV now? Ten year old Nissan Leaf? What are the chances it will still work when it's the age my Vauxhall is now?

That one, maybe not. But again, you are looking at today, not looking a few years down the line. The leaf was relatively early EV technology, and it is moving on in leaps and bounds.

Have a look at this - bigger engined cars kill more people, and there is proof (quote if you don't want to read the article):

Perhaps you should read the article.

It isn't "bigger engined", it is bigger bodied, and in particular the SUV type body shape - and that is a result of a large flat area at the front rather than the relatively low bonnet of a normal car.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlto...in-u-k-cities-urge-transport-data-scientists/

As to speed, I direct you to this - in particular this quote direct from the article:

https://www.brake.org.uk/get-involved/take-action/mybrake/knowledge-centre/speed/speed-and-injury

Well yes, it is of course utterly obvious that a collision at any given speed is more likely to cause damage than one at 2/3 of the speed.

But there is, of course, much more to the equation than that. You have to also include the likelihood of collision at any given speed. Which is, of course, why different road types have different speed limits. Our motorways have the fastest speed limits of any UK roads, and are pretty busy, but they also have the fewest casualties of any roads.

The evidence is clear that small, slow vehicles are faster than big, "high end" vehicles with a ludicrous top speed that makes them inherently incompatible with any sort of active travel.

In mainly city driving, almost certainly. That is why a lot of the smaller cars are sold as "city cars". Outside town, almost certainly not.

Have you heard the news about nurses being on strike because of crap conditions? And the record numbers of people leaving both of those professions? Bless you but you're living in dreamland if you think people doing those jobs think they're any sort of cushy number.

What relevance does that comment have? I can't see anything he wrote that could possibly be taken to read that they might.

 

[cougie uk]

or people that have to get to work, not everybody lives close to their place of employment, the days of living in a house near to the local pit/mill are long gone, doesn't help either when the buses don't bother turning up as per the timetable, so no wonder people drive to work

Of course there's a lot of people working from home at least part of the week since lockdown. I believe jobs aren't scarce either so it's never been a better time to get away from long commutes.

 

[cougie uk]

ICE, the internal combustion engine is an engineering marvel and it made the region, country and the World more accessible to everyone. It served us well for over 2 centuries.

There is also nothing about a battery being sexy. No 5 or 6 star hotel would allow its valets to park an EV no matter how expensive at the lobby forecourt normally reserved for the marquees.

In essence no EV can match an ICE in terms of performance, range, reliability, utilities with 2 exception - cost of fuel and emission. We already covered issues of convenience and affordabilIty in regard to the EVs.

Horses served us well for many centuries but I don't see them parked up on Park Lane.

I've never cared about performance. 0-60 speeds are for the pub bores to prattle on. Top speed is pointless and illegal in the UK certainly.

I'd also argue that EVs are more reliable than combustion engines already. As you've said cars have had two centuries and they still break down more than the newer tech of EVs.

 

[cougie uk]

You have been fed propaganda. We are in a brilliant time to be alive now. If the Earth was cooling we would really be worried. Dumping waste into our oceans is far more damaging than I/C engines.

My friend in Alicante had to de-ice her windscreen today. Should she be worried then ?

 

[classic33]

Horses served us well for many centuries but I don't see them parked up on Park Lane.

I've never cared about performance. 0-60 speeds are for the pub bores to prattle on. Top speed is pointless and illegal in the UK certainly.

I'd also argue that EVs are more reliable than combustion engines already. As you've said cars have had two centuries and they still break down more than the newer tech of EVs.

What's the new tech of electric vehicles, which have been around just as long?

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/are-we-being-forced-to-go-electric.281248/post-6903900

 

[Alex321]

In essence no EV can match an ICE in terms of performance, range, reliability, utilities with 2 exception - cost of fuel and emission. We already covered issues of convenience and affordabilIty in regard to the EVs.

Most of them already outdo the nearest equivalent ICE on performance. And will almost certainly be far better on reliability. Issues there at the moment are "new technology" issues rather than anything inherent in EV tech.

Range, yes their range is less and likely to remain so, but very few of us ever drive up to the range of our ICE vehicle in one journey. For a very large majority of the time, for those who have the ability to charge at home, range will really not be an issue.

I don't know what you mean by "utiliities" in that paragraph.

 

[Milzy]

My friend in Alicante had to de-ice her windscreen today. Should she be worried then ?

No. It gets cold there in winter. We are been forced to go electric but the thread has been reignited by free thinkers pushing back against the climate narrative.

 

[Alex321]

Another erroneous comment is that ice manufacturers are using ICE chassis for EV vehicles. What does an EV chassis supposed to look like? Ground clearance is an issue for certain customers and not confined to just EVs.

There is a big difference in design between a chassis designed to hold a single ICE & gearbox with the shape that engine has and the weight concentrated in one place, and one designed for a motor per wheel, with a battery spread across a large part of the underside of the vehicle.

The point is profit entities are not religious or dogmatic about their products. They will deliver what a customers. The challenge now is to make EV more affordable with cross subsidising.

Agreed. It will not be long before most main manufacturers are putting out vehicles designed from the ground up to be EVs.

 

[icowden]

Another erroneous comment is that ice manufacturers are using ICE chassis for EV vehicles. What does an EV chassis supposed to look like? Ground clearance is an issue for certain customers and not confined to just EVs.

I'm not sure anyone has said that. What does get said a lot is that some manufacturers are not really designing EVs from scratch, they are just doing what is effectively a conversion of their ICE products. These tend to be the manufacturers that have issues. The best EVs (see Tesla, Polestar) have been designed from scratch to be EVs.

 

[CXRAndy]

Agreed. It will not be long before most main manufacturers are putting out vehicles designed from the ground up to be EVs

What has been clearly demonstrated since Tesla began their stratospheric rise, all the legacy manufacturers weren't remotely ready to make EVs. They are only now redesigning chassis for EVs. It will be many years before they catch up in technology with Tesla, by which time Tesla will have flooded the market with their baby EV.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

free thinkers pushing back against the climate narrative

Oh, great, a fantasist latter day Galileo wannabe. Brilliant.

 

[cougie uk]

No. It gets cold there in winter. We are been forced to go electric but the thread has been reignited by free thinkers pushing back against the climate narrative.

This is news to her and she's lived there for years.

 

[CXRAndy]

No. It gets cold there in winter. We are been forced to go electric but the thread has been reignited by free thinkers pushing back against the climate narrative.

I understand the planet is 5% greener due to increased levels of C02 in 20 years. Climate specialists had been warning of this and other consequences for much longer than that

 

[FishFright]

or people that have to get to work, not everybody lives close to their place of employment, the days of living in a house near to the local pit/mill are long gone, doesn't help either when the buses don't bother turning up as per the timetable, so no wonder people drive to work

Its a satire on the people who think stopping for a coffee on a long journey not to buy an EV.

Also choosing to live a long way from their employment IS a lifestyle choice

 

[icowden]

Also choosing to live a long way from their employment IS a lifestyle choice

And it's about convenience. Someone posted on my local NextDoor about being a Nurse who works in Kingston Hospital and having to change her car as her current vehicle is not ULEZ compliant.

Her journey is about 7 miles and in rush hour would take between 30 minutes and an hour. A train from a station about 5 minutes walk from her house to Surbiton would take 8 minutes and then a bus from Surbiton about 20 minutes. Cycling a fairly nice route through Esher, 40 minutes.

For her, it is preferable to travel at between 7 and 14mph for her entire commute, sat in her car, and then pay for parking rather than use any of the many alternatives available to her.