Are we being forced to go electric?

[youngoldbloke]

The work cars are now EVs, I was shown how to drive one the week before the first lockdown and have not been near one since, the cleanliness of the previous ICE work cars was appalling so if the EVs are being treated the same there is no doubt some new covid versions evolving in them.

Isn't this going to be a problem with any future 'pool' car transport solution? Autonomous or otherwise.

 

[simongt]

The biggest issue ref. EVs seems to be range anxiety. With an ICE car, the range stays reasonably static for a full tank of fuel regardless of the weather conditions. With an EV, the range depends on a lot of factors; outside temperature, average speed, terrain, how many extras being used i.e., lights, air con, wipers, entertainment etc.,etc..

 

[CXRAndy]

The biggest issue ref. EVs seems to be range anxiety. With an ICE car, the range stays reasonably static for a full tank of fuel regardless of the weather conditions. With an EV, the range depends on a lot of factors; outside temperature, average speed, terrain, how many extras being used i.e., lights, air con, wipers, entertainment etc.,etc..

Use a car for it's intended design. We use or now my son uses a Nissan leaf for commuting.

We use a Tesla for cross country or continental driving.

 

[CXRAndy]

My son has managed to swap his electric to Octopus Go. He's getting 12p/kW for 4 hours overnight.

I worked out it's costing him £3.36 per day for commuting.

His flash car would cost him £13 and super eco VW Polo would be £7.20.

 

[youngoldbloke]

Use a car for it's intended design. We use or now my son uses a Nissan leaf for commuting.

We use a Tesla for cross country or continental driving.

Are you suggesting we should all own numerous vehicles - one for commuting, one for longer distances, a pickup maybe for when we go to Ikea? Isn't it greener to just have one that fulfils many functions?

 

[fossyant]

My son has managed to swap his electric to Octopus Go. He's getting 12p/kW for 4 hours overnight.

I worked out it's costing him £3.36 per day for commuting.

His flash car would cost him £13 and super eco VW Polo would be £7.20.

I assume he's got a lengthy commute, if a Polo would cost £7.20

 

[All uphill]

Isn't this going to be a problem with any future 'pool' car transport solution? Autonomous or otherwise.

The Uber and airbnb two way review models seem to work pretty well; it wouldn't be too difficult to extend this to shared cars.

I think the big obstacles are the emotional attachment many people have to their car, and, I observe, the habit of not including all costs in the calculation of the cost of a journey.

You can see it in this thread - the cost of a journey being reduced to the cost of fuel for the journey, ignoring depreciation, maintenance, ved etc.

 

[jowwy]

The Uber and airbnb two way review models seem to work pretty well; it wouldn't be too difficult to extend this to shared cars.

I think the big obstacles are the emotional attachment many people have to their car, and, I observe, the habit of not including all costs in the calculation of the cost of a journey.

You can see it in this thread - the cost of a journey being reduced to the cost of fuel for the journey, ignoring depreciation, maintenance, ved etc.

But most people dont see cars as a depreciating asset. I paid for my car outright around 6yrs ago now. I never once looked outside, seen my car and thought, i wonder how much thats depreciated in value.

For me, it does what i want it to do and will do for a very long time and for me, what it does and brings me, far outweighs its deprciation……freedom is more important and it gives me that freedom to travel around, as local transport networks are virtually non existent.

 

[cougie uk]

Maybe the swop the battery system in use in one of the Scandinavian countries might come to the fore whereby the battery is removed automatically and a newly charged one inserted. Aside from resolving the charging issue it would also resolve the battery life issue as any dud ones would get replaced. Could provide a role for all those ICE filling stations that otherwise look pretty doomed.

That's having a petrol mindset with EV technology.

You'd need stock of batteries, skilled staff to replace them, how to cope with your brand new battery being swapped for an older one, waiting around for a swap. It would be quite expensive.

Much easier to just install a few slow charging points at work or wherever you park.

 

[All uphill]

But most people dont see cars as a depreciating asset. I paid for my car outright around 6yrs ago now. I never once looked outside, seen my car and thought, i wonder how much thats depreciated in value.

My point exactly .

 

[cougie uk]

The biggest issue ref. EVs seems to be range anxiety. With an ICE car, the range stays reasonably static for a full tank of fuel regardless of the weather conditions. With an EV, the range depends on a lot of factors; outside temperature, average speed, terrain, how many extras being used i.e., lights, air con, wipers, entertainment etc.,etc..

Petrol cars range are massively variable too. You've just never noticed because almost nobody drives that many miles to make it a problem and yet somehow it's always an issue for an EV.

Speed, terrain, weather - they affect all types of vehicle.

Radio and entertainment and lights have next to no bearing on range on EVs at all.

 

[cougie uk]

I would love that. Only having a car when we need one; replacing annual charges for parking, ved, finance, insurance, mot and repairs with a pay as you go model. Last year all of those cost us around £1200 and the car only travelled 1000 miles!

I feel sure this could be part of the answer to this country's transport needs. It wouldn't work for everyone, of course.

Don't they have these car clubs already up and working in cities ? People book them out when they need a car for a specific trip.

It's a different mindset but I'm sure it could work out a lot cheaper for a lot of low mileage users.

 

[Mike_P]

That's having a petrol mindset with EV technology.

You'd need stock of batteries, skilled staff to replace them, how to cope with your brand new battery being swapped for an older one, waiting around for a swap. It would be quite expensive.

Much easier to just install a few slow charging points at work or wherever you park.

The Scandi system is automatic and yes it would require manufactures to use the same battery shape and connections which can only be a good thing in terms of economies of scale https://insideevs.com/news/622823/nio-first-battery-swap-station-sweden/

 

[icowden]

Don't they have these car clubs already up and working in cities ? People book them out when they need a car for a specific trip.

Yes, but they are prohibitively expensive unless you live in an apartment block that is subsidising them. Hourly rates for Enterprise Car club (there are three cars near me for example) are £6.30 an hour or £40 for the day. This does not include the membership fee of £2 per month, nor mileage charges if you go beyond the allowed range.

Musk wants to blow those sort of charges out of the water.

 

[All uphill]

Yes, but they are prohibitively expensive unless you live in an apartment block that is subsidising them. Hourly rates for Enterprise Car club (there are three cars near me for example) are £6.30 or £40 for the day. This does not include the membership fee of £2 per month, nor mileage charges if you go beyond the allowed range.

Musk wants to blow those sort of charges out of the water.

Great if the costs come down, but the rates you mention would make sense for occasional users (like me) when compared with the full cost of owning a car.

If the cheapest small new car costs around £3000 per year (my back of a fag packet calculation) that would buy 70 days pay as you go while avoiding parking charges and inconvenience.

Oh, in my previous example I forgot the opportunity cost of buying a car outright. The £3000 I used to spend on cars was money that otherwise could have gone into my pension.