Are we being forced to go electric?

[Gillstay]

I don't disagree with any of the above, but it's irrelevant to my overall feeling that EVs need to have better, cheaper and more reliable batteries, otherwise the 2nd hand car market is going to face a massive upheaval. Millions could be priced onto the roads, and there's not much indication of public transport taking up the slack.

As for battery lifespan already being "decent", the motoring press say to expect a 20% drop in range within the warranty period of a new EV, and we all know that lithium ion battery capacity ultiamtely falls off a cliff. Does that happen at 9 years? 10? 11?

My Touran could still give 70mpg, rathere more than the manufacturer expectation of 41-47 mpg. So whilst an EV struggles to maintain 80% range at 8 years of age, that Touran managed 150% at 15 years! I'd call that "pretty decent".
(on it's original engine, turbo and gearbox too).

EVs are brilliant, but they're a long way from having the longevity of an ICE car, and that has huge implications for millions.

How are you managing to get 70mpg out of a Turan? Is this one from when they fiddled the figures as that seems very high for such a car.

 

[Mike_P]

Of course guess who bulk bought lightbulbs immediately before low energy and then LED ones came about. Anyone want any very expensive to run 40/60/100 watt bulbs!

 

[MrGrumpy]

I understand gas boilers aren't going to be banned as replacements - only in new homes (correct me if I'm wrong)
Air source and ground source are all very well if you have the massive insulation required, in which case other forms of heating will also be more efficient/ use less fuel.

Nope up here I believe it’s replacements by 2030 . New homes 2025. Anyway we are digressing away from cars here but the electric is still the conundrum and the current cost is prohibitive !!

 

[cougie uk]

Of course guess who bulk bought lightbulbs immediately before low energy and then LED ones came about. Anyone want any very expensive to run 40/60/100 watt bulbs!

You could probably make a fortune selling them to climate change deniers.

 

[cougie uk]

Nope up here I believe it’s replacements by 2030 . New homes 2025. Anyway we are digressing away from cars here but the electric is still the conundrum and the current cost is prohibitive !!

New tech is always expensive.
Remember mobile phones?
You've still got 10 years of buying petrol cars if you want to so I don't see what the issue is.
They'll be cheaper by then.

 

[classic33]

New tech is always expensive.
Remember mobile phones?
You've still got 10 years of buying petrol cars if you want to so I don't see what the issue is.
They'll be cheaper by then.

First one I got was free. First one bought, unlocked, cost £100. Twenty-two years later, it's still working. As is the second one.

Last one bought was £500, and its not even fully waterproof. And I doubt it'll last twenty-two years.

 

[cougie uk]

First one I got was free. First one bought, unlocked, cost £100. Twenty-two years later, it's still working. As is the second one.

Last one bought was £500, and its not even fully waterproof. And I doubt it'll last twenty-two years.

You can get a smart phone for under £100.

You're not comparing like with like. Apart from BMW - do you pay monthly fees for phones ?

 

[CXRAndy]

How are you managing to get 70mpg out of a Turan? Is this one from when they fiddled the figures as that seems very high for such a car.

There is no way to get 70mpg from such an engine 2.0l TDI.

32-40 mpg would be acceptable figures from a polluting diesel.

 

[classic33]

You can get a smart phone for under £100.

You're not comparing like with like. Apart from BMW - do you pay monthly fees for phones ?

I can, but it's water resistance would be questionable. Also it's ability to handle rough treatment. I've gone for the nearest possible match available.

Handsets were bought outright. No monthly fee on any handset currently owned. Plan is 25p dearer now than it was in 20212001.


Corrected the year, 2021 to 2001.
Struck through 2021, leaving it in place.

 

[Alex321]

There is no way to get 70mpg from such an engine 2.0l TDI.

32-40 mpg would be acceptable figures from a polluting diesel.

Even for a vehicle as large as a Turan, that would seem low.

I have an insignia estate, which is not a small car, and I regularly get close to 50mpg, more like 60 when I drive up to Scotland to see my daughter. And my previous Mondeo estate, even when it had over 200K miles on the clock was only 5mpg or so short of those figures.

 

[Buck]

An enlightening video on YT re the Hyundai Ioniq. 102,000 miles and 6 year old and the battery health is reporting at 100% still!

He also ran the car for two and a half days without charging just keeping the heating onto mimic you being stranded.


View: https://youtu.be/ybw9B4NbHLM

 

[Jameshow]

An enlightening video on YT re the Hyundai Ioniq. 102,000 miles and 6 year old and the battery health is reporting at 100% still!

He also ran the car for two and a half days without charging just keeping the heating onto mimic you being stranded.


View: https://youtu.be/ybw9B4NbHLM

Depends on how you use it the horror stories probably the early Mercedes-Benz hybrids where the owners haven't charged up with batteries as they ought and so the batteries become useless...

 

[Buck]

I guess what it does show is that the EVs have the potential to last for a lot longer before degrading than we might perceive.

 

[lazybloke]

So your car which is using technology that has been refined and improved for over 100 years can give you 70mpg. Back in 1935 that would have been 14mpg.
The Tesla S was mass produced in 2012 and available range has doubled in 10 years.

2012 is not relevant. Teslas are amazing cars because pretty much every component has enjoyed decades of development in traditional cars or other applications.

Tesia mght have improved battery longevity recently by switching from a cobalt formalation to iron. Both are lithium-ion, and whilst cobalt was good for energy density it has implication for longevity.
Iron should increase longevity, but potentially halves the energy density, so the new batteries might need to be significantly heavier and larger to achieve the same performance as the old batteries.
I'll expect someone to give an update on battery capacity in 20 years!

And your mpg has only been achievable in the last 5 years or so.

Nope, the 70 mpg example was a 2003 Touran 2.0 TDI Sport. We bought it used circa 2005 and kept it until about 5 years ago. An amazing car for carrying stuff!
I had a Megane 1.9 Dci that nearly achieved the same mpg. Those Euro4 common rail diesel engines were amazingly frugal.

 

[lazybloke]

How are you managing to get 70mpg out of a Turan? Is this one from when they fiddled the figures as that seems very high for such a car.

Motorways, 6th gear, and a light right foot.
Not so good in rush hour queues!

FIddlng of figures was about emissions of later engines IIRC.