Are we being forced to go electric?

[Gillstay]

This whole discussion sounds very much like one about how solar power would never work in the UK, but 20yrs ago.
Things will change. These storms in the USA will make people reappraise their values and not before time. It will give impetuous to technology and perhaps we will go hydrogen if not able to charge a car.

 

[Alex321]

Most people among the cohort who do not live in flats or terraced houses or HMOs, and/or who are not reliant on their landlord's permission to install a charger.

Well yes, but most people not in that cohort will not be buying EVs just yet.

I just wish EV drivers would just accept that their driving pattern and the things they are prepared to do to drive their cars does not appeal to everybody, and that ICE drivers would do the same.

I hope we all realise that. BTW, I' do not own an EV. The next time either of our cars gets replaced, it will most likely be one, but that may be several years away yet.

This is not a battle just a changing situation that some are more ready to sign up to than others at the moment.

The infrastructure, battery capacity and cost issues will get better, but no one yet knows how fast that progress will be.

Very true.

I hope it will be fast enough that by the time people no longer have a real choice between ICE and EV those will not be an issue any more. But there is certainly no guarantee of that.

 

[classic33]

Where is all this extra electricity going to come from?

There's more power outages now than five years ago. The whole system requires upgrading to match the increased load. This will mean major roadworks for a few years to come. Who'll be footing the bill. The companies doing the work won't be willing to twiddle their thumbs whilst money they spent doing the upgrading gets paid back slowly.

 

[Jameshow]

Where is all this extra electricity going to come from?

There's more power outages now than five years ago. The whole system requires upgrading to match the increased load. This will mean major roadworks for a few years to come. Who'll be footing the bill. The companies doing the work won't be willing to twiddle their thumbs whilst money they spent doing the upgrading gets paid back slowly.

Who knows that's the big elephant in the room!!

 

[classic33]

Who knows that's the big elephant in the room!!

Which part?

The current system requires upgrading to meet rising demand, or who'll pay for it?

 

[Jameshow]

The capacity to generate it?

Esp if we go to increased renewables and the wind isn't blowing in winter?

https://www.nationalgrideso.com/future-energy/net-zero-explained/electric-vehicles/evs-electricity

Add into the mix gshp and the futures dark literally!
.

 

[MrGrumpy]

The capacity to generate it?

Esp if we go to increased renewables and the wind isn't blowing in winter?

https://www.nationalgrideso.com/future-energy/net-zero-explained/electric-vehicles/evs-electricity

Add into the mix gshp and the futures dark literally!
.

I’m with you !! more worried about energy prices and what I’ll be heating my home with! It’s clear we are in a bit of a mess and this charge towards electrification ( no pun intended :-) ) seems thoughtless . It would not surprise me one bit if targets are moved !!

 

[Alex321]

Where is all this extra electricity going to come from?

There's more power outages now than five years ago.

All the numbers I can find suggest the opposite
https://annualreview2021.ukpowernet...1/operational-performance/network-reliability

https://www.statista.com/statistics...t-per-electricity-consumer-united-kingdom-uk/

 

[classic33]

All the numbers I can find suggest the opposite
https://annualreview2021.ukpowernet...1/operational-performance/network-reliability

https://www.statista.com/statistics...t-per-electricity-consumer-united-kingdom-uk/

National Grid must be wrong about the system requiring updating to meet demand.

 

[gbb]

Accepting we don't know probably half the facts, thats £230,000 per vehicle thats disappeared into the ether .
Further on there's mention of two bin lorries not mentioned in the original article, fair enough, even if they're £400,000 each, let's bring te original spend of £8 million down to £7 million for 23 vans, the cost per van therefore is still a thumping £300,000 plus each.
We had better hope it (the article) is wholly misleading and incorrect...that or some people in charge should be instantly dismissed.

I know the discussion has moved on but today was the first chance to talk to my brother, a council refuse truck driver, crew supervisor.
They had a couple (full blown refuse trucks, battery powered) on loan to test last year, our council is also in the process of including EVs in their fleet.
His didn't make the day out before the battery was too depleted to carry on. The company claimed the range would increase as battery technology inevitably does. Cost for them was IRO £700,000 each.
Christ, get it wrong and you have a huge investment that can't even do a days work.

 

[Alex321]

National Grid must be wrong about the system requiring updating to meet demand.

Why?

Demand is increasing. The system does need upgrading to cope with that. But so far they have been keeping pace, even improving.

Whether they can continue doing so remains to be seen.

 

[KnittyNorah]

How many people in towns kept a horse outside their dwelling, as a means of personal transport, before the change started?

There were thriving businesses - livery stables - of different standards and service levels - in towns both large and small, and cities, where people without sufficient space or facilities at home, but who had the wherewithall to be able to afford their own transport, professional men who commuted daily from outside the city to their rooms or offices, and others, could keep their personal transport safely, in good condition, serviced, fuelled and prepared ready for use - either on a long-term or more temporary, possibly only once or twice a week, basis. Some of these places also acted as points for the hiring and/or sale of such transport; some specialised in certain aspects of maintenance and some gave lessons to those who wished to become competent in the use of such transport.

I wonder if something like that might be possible for EVs as a stop-gap until the first truly functional generation of affordable on-call self-driving vehicles come along?

 

[cougie uk]

Where is all this extra electricity going to come from?

There's more power outages now than five years ago. The whole system requires upgrading to match the increased load. This will mean major roadworks for a few years to come. Who'll be footing the bill. The companies doing the work won't be willing to twiddle their thumbs whilst money they spent doing the upgrading gets paid back slowly.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/storie...ries/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars

Cannot remember the last time we had a power outage.
Every day more solar panels are added to the grid.
Every week more wind turbines are added.

You really seem to be looking for problems where there aren't any.

 

[classic33]

https://www.nationalgrid.com/storie...ries/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars

Cannot remember the last time we had a power outage.
Every day more solar panels are added to the grid.
Every week more wind turbines are added.

You really seem to be looking for problems where there aren't any.

No to that last part.
The vast majority of substations round these parts are over half a century old.

 

[Chislenko]

After 198 pages I have come to the conclusion that those who can facilitate and want an EV are keen to own.

Those who can't facilitate and not keen to own don't want one.

It would appear that arguments / factors put forward by the "opposing sides" are doing nothing to persuade either faction to change their minds.

May as well just call it a draw 🙂