Are we being forced to go electric?

[icowden]

Have you ever lived in an upstairs flat, or a terraced house in a narrow street of similar properties, where all front doors open straight onto the pavement? And where the back yards open into a narrow, 2-person wide ginnel?

Ah ok, that wasn;t what I understood by what you said:

I think it might be more true to replace that all-encompassing 'most people' with 'most people in some social demographics' ...
A great many people will find it impossible, or at the very least, achingly difficult, to charge at home.

It sort of implied that hooking up to the charger was what was achingly difficult. If you have the facilities it's easy. But yes, a third of properties don't have a driveway. There are solutions for those places - loads of lamp post chargers for example, or charging bollards at regular intervals. This element needs work but for 66% of the country, you can charge at home.

 

[icowden]

No to that last part.
The vast majority of substations round these parts are over half a century old.

Why does that matter? It's what's inside them that counts!

 

[CXRAndy]

But yes, a third of properties don't have a driveway.

Well there is the first wave of vehicles off the road

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

Seems to me we'll ultimately see less cars on the road, which is a good thing on a societal level.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Seems to me we'll ultimately see less cars on the road, which is a good thing on a societal level.

Well I’m thinking , there will be just more older cars on the road ? !

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

Well I’m thinking , there will be just more older cars on the road ? !

For a while, yes.

 

[youngoldbloke]

For a while, yes.

- and then we'll be forced to go electric - which answers the original question

 

[All uphill]

There were thriving businesses - livery stables - of different standards and service levels - in towns both large and small, and cities, where people without sufficient space or facilities at home, but who had the wherewithall to be able to afford their own transport, professional men who commuted daily from outside the city to their rooms or offices, and others, could keep their personal transport safely, in good condition, serviced, fuelled and prepared ready for use - either on a long-term or more temporary, possibly only once or twice a week, basis. Some of these places also acted as points for the hiring and/or sale of such transport; some specialised in certain aspects of maintenance and some gave lessons to those who wished to become competent in the use of such transport.

I wonder if something like that might be possible for EVs as a stop-gap until the first truly functional generation of affordable on-call self-driving vehicles come along?

Moving away from owning your own vehicle to a renting where and when needed, would make a huge positive difference.

Higher usage rates would mean fewer parked cars congesting our streets.

 

[cougie uk]

After 198 pages I have come to the conclusion that those who can facilitate and want an EV are keen to own.

Those who can't facilitate and not keen to own don't want one.

It would appear that arguments / factors put forward by the "opposing sides" are doing nothing to persuade either faction to change their minds.

May as well just call it a draw 🙂

Some people don't like change.

 

[tyred]

After 198 pages I have come to the conclusion that those who can facilitate and want an EV are keen to own.

Those who can't facilitate and not keen to own don't want one.

It would appear that arguments / factors put forward by the "opposing sides" are doing nothing to persuade either faction to change their minds.

May as well just call it a draw 🙂

I'm waiting on steam cars to make a comeback.

 

[jowwy]

i'm still laughing at the power outage comments...not had one where i live for about 20yrs. But EV's can be charged on solar and at night on a economy 7 tariff and therefore less reliance on the grid at peak times. Can even use the EV as back up power for the house on a not so sunny day too.....so a double use for that big old car battery.

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

My wife was getting concerned a few months ago about rumours of power cuts over the winter and had me looking at portable generators. Then I twigged I have a very effective generator parked at the door in the shape of our PHEV.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Ah ok, that wasn;t what I understood by what you said:

It sort of implied that hooking up to the charger was what was achingly difficult. If you have the facilities it's easy. But yes, a third of properties don't have a driveway. There are solutions for those places - loads of lamp post chargers for example, or charging bollards at regular intervals. This element needs work but for 66% of the country, you can charge at home.

Then you clearly misunderstood; no-one in their right mind would think that plugging something in is 'achingly difficult' - unless of course there is no socket in which to plug. In which case it is more than difficult, it is impossible. And trying to do would make one ache all over ...

So it seems that the person who does not have the facilities to install their own charger will be dependent on whatever the operators of commercial chargers wish to provide, and pay whatever costs per unit they impose, whereas the person with their own charger will be paying the normal domestic rate per unit for electricity?

Other posters have already mentioned the current difference in cost between home charging and commercial charging points ... this is actually getting worse, and not better.

The eventual cost will, I believe, be a higher one for many more people than we imagine - for less reward (ie reduction in emissions etc and subsequent climate change) than we hope. I will not live to see it, but I can only hope that more and better transport technologies than mere battery powered rechargable metal boxes come 'on stream' very rapidly indeed.

 

[Arrowfoot]

After 198 pages I have come to the conclusion that those who can facilitate and want an EV are keen to own.

Those who can't facilitate and not keen to own don't want one.

It would appear that arguments / factors put forward by the "opposing sides" are doing nothing to persuade either faction to change their minds.

May as well just call it a draw 🙂

More like the convenience and reliability of owning and operating an EV vs ICE. It cannot be a draw as one is obviously more convenient and more reliable.

Norway compensated for the inconvenience and less reliability by offering financial incentives and developed an excellent charging infrastructure. They also banned the sale of new ICE in 2025. So now EVs exceed the sale of Ice and Norway now has highest EV ownership on a per capita basis.

Hard measures have to be introduced by the State to facilitate the cross-over and overcome the limitation of EVs. Until then pointless to tell the World that I have driven to the Alps or that charging stations are easy to find when petrol stations are all over and covers the globe. You are only fooling yourself with those sort of arguments.

 

[icowden]

Then you clearly misunderstood; no-one in their right mind would think that plugging something in is 'achingly difficult' - unless of course there is no socket in which to plug. In which case it is more than difficult, it is impossible. And trying to do would make one ache all over ...

It was what you described IMHO.

So it seems that the person who does not have the facilities to install their own charger will be dependent on whatever the operators of commercial chargers wish to provide, and pay whatever costs per unit they impose, whereas the person with their own charger will be paying the normal domestic rate per unit for electricity?

Correct.

Other posters have already mentioned the current difference in cost between home charging and commercial charging points ... this is actually getting worse, and not better.

Yes, but mostly looking at fast chargers. If you look at Brighton for example they have around 200 lamp post chargers many of which are in residents only parking. The cost to use those was initially 26p per kwh, and has recently been increased to 39p per Kwh. That's on a par with a domestic electricity tariff. Yes, it's not as cheap as having your own charger because you can't go for the EV only option or use solar panels, but £32 for a full tank is still significantly cheaper than diesel and petrol.