Are we being forced to go electric?

[figbat]

Bit of an update...took delivery of the PHEV a couple of months ago. Does all the things you expect a new car to do and we have got into the habit of sticking it on charge when we get home unless it is more than 3/4 charged. Electric range is about 35 miles which covers almost all our day to day driving. I think the only time it went onto full petrol was a day over Xmas when I had to go to Manchester and back twice and didn't have enough time between to recharge
Interesting that when on automatic hybrid engine management it uses a reasonable amount of petrol which presumably is when accelerating

It has a calculator which estimates the mpg obtained based on charging history, driving style etc. Having done about 1000 miles it is 90mpg. Regularly on electric only, smooth drives it will record 160mpg and this is quite a large car

My one reservation about this scenario is that you are using the EV traction almost exclusively, so you are carrying around a redundant engine, gearbox and fuel tank almost all the time. Yes, it's nice when you get to use it but your EV miles will be compromised by it. It would be nice if you could keep the engine in the garage and only attach it when you know you'll need it. I had an idea once (which no doubt is not original) of a range extending trailer for EVs - an engine-driven generator that you hitch up as needed for range extension.

 

[CXRAndy]

Any documented source to this early 1900s claim as none of us were born then? I would have thought that most could not afford it then

Here is a little post about the early days of ICE ownership, lack of fuel availablity and what owners did when wanting longer journeys

https://americacomesalive.com/when-...-were-first-used-where-did-they-get-gasoline/

 

[CXRAndy]

Hybrids are a con, they are sold to keep the ICE from being tossed on the scrapheap of history.

I bought one, but soon realised I should have gone straight to full electric. My Hydrid was chopped in for a Tesla model S.

Not looked back since.

We run 3 full EVs in our family now, soon to 4 and maybe 5 in few years time.

We do a cumulative 40-50k miles a year, which 99% is done from home charging

 

[nickyboy]

My one reservation about this scenario is that you are using the EV traction almost exclusively, so you are carrying around a redundant engine, gearbox and fuel tank almost all the time. Yes, it's nice when you get to use it but your EV miles will be compromised by it. It would be nice if you could keep the engine in the garage and only attach it when you know you'll need it. I had an idea once (which no doubt is not original) of a range extending trailer for EVs - an engine-driven generator that you hitch up as needed for range extension.

Yes I recognise this and mitigate the impact by only carrying less than a 1/4 tank of petrol for emergencies. The reasons are two fold:

1) Mrs N was worrying quite a lot about the logistics of, say, a holiday in a cottage in Devon with no charging facility
2) For the type of vehicle we wanted (4WD SUV) the only EV was/is the Audi Etron and that was too expensive. There is a reasonable selection of PHEVs. Before anyone moans, we live in an area prone to snow and are on a 16% hill and have been stuck at home for days with just a 2WD vehicle

 

[midlife]

Section at the end of this article on EV costs..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64222643

 

[icowden]

2) For the type of vehicle we wanted (4WD SUV) the only EV was/is the Audi Etron and that was too expensive. There is a reasonable selection of PHEVs. Before anyone moans, we live in an area prone to snow and are on a 16% hill and have been stuck at home for days with just a 2WD vehicle

Yes - a lot more choice now on the 4WD front. I think when you were looking there were other 4WDs (e.g. Tesla X) but again at the very expensive end of the range. You now have the Enyaq, Tesla Y, Ioniq 5 to name but a few in the mid-range.

 

[midlife]

Yes - a lot more choice now on the 4WD front. I think when you were looking there were other 4WDs (e.g. Tesla X) but again at the very expensive end of the range. You now have the Enyaq, Tesla Y, Ioniq 5 to name but a few in the mid-range.

Not sure I'd class the Tesla Y at £52000 to £65000 as mid range.

 

[Deleted User]

Not sure I'd class the Tesla Y at £52000 to £65000 as mid range.

C'mon now, doesn't everybody have a 'mid range' car on their drive?

Talk about 'out of touch'!

 

[icowden]

Not sure I'd class the Tesla Y at £52000 to £65000 as mid range.

Elon Musk would. Don't forget that that price is a little bit due to the Government. In the US it starts at £47000 and many states have a tax incentive to reduce it further. Get one in Norway and it's £35,000. That's the difference between a Government with vision, and one without.

 

[icowden]

C'mon now, doesn't everybody have a 'mid range' car on their drive?

Mid range for EVs obviously. At the moment for new cars, cheap = £20k to £40k. Mid=£40k to £60k and Luxury=over £60k (banding is a guess and approximate).

Even with ICE, cars aren't cheap. Average Hatchback is £21k which isn't that far off the smaller EVs. Average SUV is £38k which isn't that far off the lower end of the SUV type EVs. When I bought my Grand Scenic in 2012 it was 13k (reduced from 15k due to dealer registration) new. The same car now is between 23k and 31k.

 

[Jameshow]

Elon Musk would. Don't forget that that price is a little bit due to the Government. In the US it starts at £47000 and many states have a tax incentive to reduce it further. Get one in Norway and it's £35,000. That's the difference between a Government with vision, and one without.

Norway renewable energy percentage 98%

UK 36%

Therefore 64% of EV energy are just as poluting as ice cars...

Also take drax and simalar generators out which aren't green and are ruining masses of Canadian forest and I bet its below 30%....

 

[All uphill]

As a now-non-driver (for a range of reasons) looking from the outside into the world of electric vehicles, I wonder if reviving the old motorail services might be a consideration - useful for those who will be buying 2nd hand cars with reduced range, and those buying the smaller, lighter e-cars with reduced range which will suitable for many people's normal everyday usage and will surely be available at lower prices in the next 5 - 10 years.

Put your car on the train in Birmingham and get off with it in Lyons, Verona or Warsaw ... Closer to home, put your car on the train in London, get off in Dundee. Car on train on Carlisle, get off in Cornwall ...
Once you are in the area of your destination, you can 'top up' in your normal way. Of course it wouldn't work for a touring holiday, but for a destination holiday, it would seem ideal.

Or just leave the car at home?

Hire one at your destination if you have to.

 

[FishFright]

Norway renewable energy percentage 98%

UK 36%

Therefore 64% of EV energy are just as poluting as ice cars...

Also take drax and simalar generators out which aren't green and are ruining masses of Canadian forest and I bet its below 30%....

Sorry to burst your bubble but petrol is 100% non renewable and always will be.

I find it's handy to remember that kind of thing before you post.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Or just leave the car at home?

Hire one at your destination if you have to.

That will only work for some people, depending on what they need to carry with them on the first segment of their journey.
It would work for me, if I still drove, and has worked for me in the past.

With a partner, a couple of children, a tent and all the other camping stuff for two weeks, the dog, the kitchen sink, Uncle Tom Cobley and all - not a hope!

 

[Alex321]

Sorry to burst your bubble but petrol is 100% non renewable and always will be.

I find it's handy to remember that kind of thing before you post.

Not sure just what "bubble" of his you think you are bursting, or why you think he might not have remembered that.

He did say "Therefore 64% of EV energy are just as poluting as ice cars".

Although that was a rather awkward way of putting it, in that it isn't 64% of the vehicles but 64% of the usage.

But of course, what he failed to mention is that the proportion of renewable fuel used in UK electricity generation is rising every year, so that 64% will be reducing as it does.

What is also not accounted for in that crude 64% is how efficient the energy conversions involved are - I don't know the answers to this, but it probably is not an insignificant factor in any calculations as to how much "better" (or not) EVs are.