Are we being forced to go electric?

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icowden

icowden

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Location
Surrey
Jameshow said:
Norway renewable energy percentage 98%
UK 36%
Therefore 64% of EV energy are just as poluting as ice cars...
Also take drax and simalar generators out which aren't green and are ruining masses of Canadian forest and I bet its below 30%....
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So because our government is crap and hasn't invested in renewables this will never change so we shouldn't bother with EVs. Is that really your argument?

If we all have EVs then yes - at the moment our energy generates some pollution BUT (and here's the magic bit). If we change how we generate electricity THEY ALL BECOME NON POLLUTING!! It's MAGIC!!

PS - Your figures are also inaccurate. AT the time of writing, 54.1% of Electricity was coming from renewables and 13% from Nuclear. 15% was imported energy. At 2am this morning nearly all of it was coming from Nuclear and wind. So only 15% was coming from burning gas (fairly clean) and burning wood pellets (not clean at all).
 
cougie uk

cougie uk

Guru
I'm on a green tariff with octopus and getting solar next week so almost 100% of my miles are green.
And 1/4 the cost of petrol miles.
 
icowden

icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
Alex321 said:
Not sure just what "bubble" of his you think you are bursting, or why you think he might not have remembered that.
He did say "Therefore 64% of EV energy are just as poluting as ice cars".
Although that was a rather awkward way of putting it, in that it isn't 64% of the vehicles but 64% of the usage.
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It's not even that. Burning gas en-masse for example is still cleaner than burning diesel and petrol in individual engines.
 
Jameshow

Jameshow

Veteran
icowden said:
So because our government is crap and hasn't invested in renewables this will never change so we shouldn't bother with EVs. Is that really your argument?

If we all have EVs then yes - at the moment our energy generates some pollution BUT (and here's the magic bit). If we change how we generate electricity THEY ALL BECOME NON POLLUTING!! It's MAGIC!!

PS - Your figures are also inaccurate. AT the time of writing, 54.1% of Electricity was coming from renewables and 13% from Nuclear. 15% was imported energy. At 2am this morning nearly all of it was coming from Nuclear and wind. So only 15% was coming from burning gas (fairly clean) and burning wood pellets (not clean at all).
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I used last years figures so they are accurate.

I just wanted to show the EV isn't as clean as everybody makes out.
shep said:
Show off!
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I got a £600 polo!! Beat that!!
 
icowden

icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
midlife said:
Got a £3k Ford Ka on the drive...........so obviously I'm a prol.
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Not really. But if you only drive it locally you can get a second hand Nissan Leaf for not much more. As we have said. There isn't really a second hand market at the moment for EVs as they are almost all new in relative terms. A 3K Ford Ka is from about 2012 / 2013. You won't find many EVs about from 2012/2013 as global EV sales mean there were only about 400,000 EVs in the world. In 2021 we bought almost 7 million EVs. In 2022 it is expected the figure will increase to 10 million.

The second hand market will start to grow and in another 5 years will probably be thriving.
 
A

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
icowden said:
It's not even that. Burning gas en-masse for example is still cleaner than burning diesel and petrol in individual engines.
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Which is part of what I was getting at with my comment about efficiency of energy conversions.

But there are multiple conversions involved in each case, and working out which is actually more efficient overall when the EV is using electricity generated by fossil fuels from the grid is difficult.
 
FishFright

FishFright

More wheels than sense
Alex321 said:
Not sure just what "bubble" of his you think you are bursting, or why you think he might not have remembered that.

He did say "Therefore 64% of EV energy are just as poluting as ice cars".

Although that was a rather awkward way of putting it, in that it isn't 64% of the vehicles but 64% of the usage.

But of course, what he failed to mention is that the proportion of renewable fuel used in UK electricity generation is rising every year, so that 64% will be reducing as it does.

What is also not accounted for in that crude 64% is how efficient the energy conversions involved are - I don't know the answers to this, but it probably is not an insignificant factor in any calculations as to how much "better" (or not) EVs are.
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It was a jokey post but that's not polluting works so doubling down on incorrect things isn't good either.
 
A

Alex321

Guru
Location
South Wales
icowden said:
So because our government is crap and hasn't invested in renewables this will never change so we shouldn't bother with EVs. Is that really your argument?

If we all have EVs then yes - at the moment our energy generates some pollution BUT (and here's the magic bit). If we change how we generate electricity THEY ALL BECOME NON POLLUTING!! It's MAGIC!!

PS - Your figures are also inaccurate. AT the time of writing, 54.1% of Electricity was coming from renewables and 13% from Nuclear. 15% was imported energy. At 2am this morning nearly all of it was coming from Nuclear and wind. So only 15% was coming from burning gas (fairly clean) and burning wood pellets (not clean at all).
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Burning wood pellets counts as "renewables" even though as you say, it is not clean. That was James' point about Drax & similar.
 
icowden

icowden

Veteran
Location
Surrey
Jameshow said:
I used last years figures so they are accurate.
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Then I don't know where you got them from. National Grid say:-

Here is the National Grid ESO’s breakdown of the 2022 electricity generation mix by technology:
  • Gas: 38.5%
  • Wind: 26.8%
  • Nuclear: 15.5%
  • Biomass: 5.2%
  • Coal: 1.5%
  • Solar: 4.4%
  • Imports (mixed source): 5.5%
  • Hydro: 1.8%
  • Energy storage: 0.9%
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So I make that 33% from solar, hydro and wind. 5.5% imported. 15.5% Nuclear. That adds up to 53.5%. I know Nuclear isn't 100% clean, but it is a lot cleaner than Diesel. The worst offenders in that list are coal and biomass. Gas emits 30% less CO2 than oil. However we clearly need to reduce gas and build more renewables.
 
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