Are we being forced to go electric?

[CXRAndy]

We had an EV on borrow for the weekend from the car showroom last year. Out and about doing chores, we needed to charge it. Ikea was local so popped in there. 8 chargers, all full. All EV's. 5 Out of the 8 not charging, just parked.
Went to Tesco's. 6 spaces, all full, 3 out of 6 just parked, not charging.
It seemed to us that EV drivers think because its a charging point, they can park there anyway.
Pretty annoying and selfish behaviour.

That's not the norm, going forward people are going to be premium excess overstay in charging bays.

Tesla already do this, it varies from 50p to £1 per minute once charged up. Tesla will also limit max capacity if the site is busy.

 

[icowden]

Yes but are we been forced to go electric?
No there’s loads of good hybrids coming out now & they will continue for a “LONG” time.

But you still have to put Diesel and Petrol in them. There will be a tipping point in the relatively near future where the volume of new ICE cars sold decreases to the point that Petrol and Diesel sales start to drop off a cliff. At that point, producing Diesel and Petrol becomes less desirable and the price goes up.

So sure, you can buy a hybrid. Will you still be able to afford the fuel in 10 years time?

 

[youngoldbloke]

That's not the norm, going forward people are going to be premium excess overstay in charging bays.

Tesla already do this, it varies from 50p to £1 per minute once charged up. Tesla will also limit max capacity if the site is busy.

So the days of shops offering free or discounted charging to attract customers to browse their stores are numbered, as duration of your visit will be limited due to the fear of overstay penalties.

 

[gbb]

Just to jump back to government, NHS, social waste. In an article today

I copied this section

'Huge amounts of waste associated with the pandemic, with the Department for Health and Social Care spending more than £4 billion on PPE – of which £2.6 billion was unsuitable, £670 million defective, and £750 million surplus to requirements. It then paid £436 million in fines for leaving mountains of PPE in storage too long, and agreed to pay £35 million for the destruction of PPE it cannot use.'

These aren't isolated events, our money is being squandered year on year by every major service that we pay for.

It doesn't matter whether this is labour or conservatives governing. The public's sector have no concept of care re our money

They literally p!ss it away. SOME folk still think it's ok

Personally, i tend to think the whole world had an unprecedented situation to deal with...and fast. No doubt mistakes were made, huge ones.
But we always look at this in isolation, did any other country make the same mistakes ?
There is a feeling the container shortage that impacted the supply chain so badly was due to countries having unused, unuseble, excess PPE locked up in hundreds of thousands of containers around the world.
I suspect human nature being what it is....it may well have happened in many / most countries, we just don't get to hear what happened there.

 

[cougie uk]

Just to jump back to government, NHS, social waste. In an article today

I copied this section

'Huge amounts of waste associated with the pandemic, with the Department for Health and Social Care spending more than £4 billion on PPE – of which £2.6 billion was unsuitable, £670 million defective, and £750 million surplus to requirements. It then paid £436 million in fines for leaving mountains of PPE in storage too long, and agreed to pay £35 million for the destruction of PPE it cannot use.'

These aren't isolated events, our money is being squandered year on year by every major service that we pay for.

It doesn't matter whether this is labour or conservatives governing. The public's sector have no concept of care re our money

They literally p!ss it away. SOME folk still think it's ok

So because Matt Hancock gave millions to his mate the pub landlord to get some PPE - we should privatise the NHS ?

Hmmm. Not convinced.

 

[cougie uk]

We had an EV on borrow for the weekend from the car showroom last year. Out and about doing chores, we needed to charge it. Ikea was local so popped in there. 8 chargers, all full. All EV's. 5 Out of the 8 not charging, just parked.
Went to Tesco's. 6 spaces, all full, 3 out of 6 just parked, not charging.
It seemed to us that EV drivers think because its a charging point, they can park there anyway.
Pretty annoying and selfish behaviour.

That is annoying. But if the EV were yours presumably you'd have just charged before going out and had no inconvenience ?

I've never seen that but I hardly ever charge away from home.

 

[vickster]

That is annoying. But if the EV were yours presumably you'd have just charged before going out and had no inconvenience ?

I've never seen that but I hardly ever charge away from home.

What about the many people who simply aren’t able to charge at home as they don’t have (off street) parking right outside their home?
There’s one of those charging post thingies nearby. There is pretty much always a non EV parked next to it as it’s on a residential street

 

[CXRAndy]

So the days of shops offering free or discounted charging to attract customers to browse their stores are numbered, as duration of your visit will be limited due to the fear of overstay penalties.

It's already happened, Tesco no longer offer free charging. Round by us it lasted maybe a year after installation of the chargers. Most carparks have a 2hr max stay with big £60-100 fine if you do. It's no different.

It's simple really, don't hog a charging bay, use and move on

 

[cougie uk]

What about the many people who simply aren’t able to charge at home as they don’t have (off street) parking right outside their home?
There’s one of those charging post thingies nearby. There is pretty much always a non EV parked next to it as it’s on a residential street

My mum's next door neighbour hasn't off street parking. He runs a cable to it covered in a hi Viz Cover thing. No drama.

The demand for charging will go up so there will be more charging stations.

There's one 200 yards from me with another one being built half a mile away.

 

[CXRAndy]

So because Matt Hancock gave millions to his mate the pub landlord to get some PPE - we should privatise the NHS ?

Hmmm. Not convinced.

COVID cockup was one incident. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of wasted projects, purchases going on every year. Not just NHS, but that is a huge money pit, which could do with ground up reorganization. Eg if people were charged for not turning up to appointments, scans etc. Bet your bottom dollar they would be there on time every time.

Another waste of money which increases in cost every month just about HS2,. WTF is it for. To make travelling into London 20mins faster.

Then you have local government doing smaller wasteful projects.

I'm sure if folk did a cursory look in their area, there will be news articles, reports on what money has been stupidly wasted.

 

[vickster]

My mum's next door neighbour hasn't off street parking. He runs a cable to it covered in a hi Viz Cover thing. No drama.

The demand for charging will go up so there will be more charging stations.

There's one 200 yards from me with another one being built half a mile away.

What about people who live in flats or can’t run a cable to wherever they have to park as they can’t park directly outside. Does he have permission to run the cable across the pavement?

Having more charging stations might be a solution if not abused by people just parking or staying for hours on end. Who’ll ‘police’ it and who’ll pay for enforcement?

 

[cougie uk]

What about people who live in flats or can’t run a cable to wherever they have to park as they can’t park directly outside. Does he have permission to run the cable across the pavement?

Having more charging stations might be a solution if not abused by people just parking or staying for hours on end. Who’ll ‘police’ it and who’ll pay for enforcement?

If they have a car - presumably they have somewhere to park.
All you need is a charger put in. It's not rocket science.

Overstaying chargers can be easily fixed by increasing the payment hugely after an hour or whatever. Simple.

 

[vickster]

If they have a car - presumably they have somewhere to park.
All you need is a charger put in. It's not rocket science.

Overstaying chargers can be easily fixed by increasing the payment hugely after an hour or whatever. Simple.

But not necessarily close to where they live. A friend of mine for example lives in an upstairs maisonette, she’d need a very long cable to reach her car that she cannot park directly outside and it would even need to run over the road as well as the payment. She has a parking permit to park on the street but no designated space.
What would she do if no chargers on the street.
I’m just saying it’s not as simple (or cost effective) as for people who have OSP.
That’s before taking the far higher cost of EVs into account which will be a barrier for millions

 

[Dadam]

COVID cockup was one incident. There are literally hundreds if not thousands of wasted projects, purchases going on every year. Not just NHS, but that is a huge money pit, which could do with ground up reorganization. Eg if people were charged for not turning up to appointments, scans etc. Bet your bottom dollar they would be there on time every time.

Another waste of money which increases in cost every month just about HS2,. WTF is it for. To make travelling into London 20mins faster.

Then you have local government doing smaller wasteful projects.

I'm sure if folk did a cursory look in their area, there will be news articles, reports on what money has been stupidly wasted.

As I posted earlier with sources, pound for pound, for what it provides the NHS is still amongst the top performing health services in the world. Study after study has borne this out. However it's not without its problems, primarily because its funding is being stripped to the bone relative to the escalating demand. One huge problem it has, which has a massive impact on A&E waiting times, is the inability to clear beds of people who don't need to be in hospital but cannot be discharged due to lack of social care provision. The reason for that is social care is in an even worse position of underfunding. At the same time it's drastically understaffed because the pay is rock bottom and the main source of people willing and able to work in the sector was cut off a few years ago, largely due to small-minded xenophobia.

By far the biggest problem in government, and actually pretty much all large organisations, the private sector included*, is simply not thinking things through. Having too narrow a view, and too short-term a view.

*This fact isn't widely reported as it doesn't fit the inaccurate "bloated management" trope beloved by those who seek to run it down. The NHS in fact compares favourably with the majority of large private companies in the amount it spends on management costs as a proportion of its budget.

[Agree with you about HS2 though, vanity project and totally reinforcing the London-centric attitude that has blighted the rest of the country]

 

[CXRAndy]

What about people who live in flats or can’t run a cable to wherever they have to park as they can’t park directly outside. Does he have permission to run the cable across the pavement?

Having more charging stations might be a solution if not abused by people just parking or staying for hours on end. Who’ll ‘police’ it and who’ll pay for enforcement?

Tesla's is fully automated, it knows when your car is charged. Owning a Tesla you use their fantastic app. It keeps you informed when you need to return to your car to move it.

It really isn't difficult as a non Tesla owner to understand how long you need to charge your EV .

Once the charging current drops to a low amount, the charger could then start billing for overstay at an increased price .

You need to either swipe your card or have a cars logged to an app to use chargers. So there is no cheating.

For those who park in a charge bay and don't even use the charger, clamp or better still tow away.