Are we being forced to go electric?

[icowden]

The tail pipe emissions still exist, they're just being produced by the person who bought the 2nd hand car that the EV person traded in.

Unless it was scrapped. But ultimately the usual way this works is that the person who bought the 2nd hand car is getting rid of an even worse car. So an ICE car is going to the scrapyard somewhere along the line, more often than not.

When I get my EV I will be selling my 10 year old scenic. It is close to being uneconomical to repair, thus I suspect that whoever buys it will be turning it into spare parts.

 

[KnittyNorah]

It's the second part that's a bit difficult. Depending on how much they drive it may well still be greener to get an EV than continue driving an ICE vehicle if they can afford to do so. Those tail pipe emissions add up quickly.

What @ClichéGuevara says, wrt trading it in, and why 'driving it less' has to be an essential part of the equation.

 

[Buck]

A lot of the discussion on here is very binary. It is rather more complex than ICE=Bad. EV=Good. More a case of EV better (looking at the lifespan of the vehicle) and I agree with those that say it’s all about reducing use of all things that are more polluting.

If I buy a new EV, yes there will be an environmental cost but I am confident it will be less than if I were to buy a new ICE car. I read that an EV becomes environmentally “better” than an ICE after around 2 years of ownership offsetting the relatively higher environmental impact to build.

My current car will be bought by someone and down the chain there will be a car that is no longer viable that is taken off the road.

Ultimately, we will be forced to go electric but it will not be a short transition. Let’s revisit this thread in a few years and see how far we have gone on the journey.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

I think a key question is, is the aim to get people out of cars, or in to electric vehicles? If it's the former, then the public transport and cycling systems need massive improvements and investment. If it's the latter, then the problems associated with vehicles and road building will also need massive investment, and both will have to be done with less tax coming in from the motorist, as well as both having environmental consequences, as will any variations in between.

Presently, the poorer sections of society that can't afford to save money by getting an electric car will pay a disproportionate percentage of the financial and social costs.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Well as luck would have it, the wife’s E Class Coupe is in for a recall and service. General manager brought a replacement EQC400 for running about in till it’s ready to be picked up. It’s quite nippy and could see myself in one. I’d need to check the price

 

[icowden]

I think a key question is, is the aim to get people out of cars, or in to electric vehicles? If it's the former, then the public transport and cycling systems need massive improvements and investment. If it's the latter, then the problems associated with vehicles and road building will also need massive investment, and both will have to be done with less tax coming in from the motorist, as well as both having environmental consequences, as will any variations in between.

Presently, the poorer sections of society that can't afford to save money by getting an electric car will pay a disproportionate percentage of the financial and social costs.

Yep, can't disagree with anything there. Unfortunately our government has no interest in improving public transport nor investing in green tech.
When I lived in that there London I didn't need a car. Busses, trains and tubes everywhere. Now I live in Surrey, not so far away, and without a car you are pretty much stuffed.

 

[CXRAndy]

This morning, I saw a whole range of full EVs all 22 plates Hyundai, Kia, Skoda, BMW, Audi, Renault and the usual swarm of Tesla's Y X 3

The uptake is really picking up

 

[mjr]

When I lived in that there London I didn't need a car. Busses, trains and tubes everywhere. Now I live in Surrey, not so far away, and without a car you are pretty much stuffed.

I'm reading elsewhere that the much-vaunted new power granted by gov.uk to let other areas take over control of public transport and run it under Transport-for-London-style operator contracts hasn't actually been accompanied by enough funding to do that. There was some competitive bidding process and more than half of areas got no funding, says https://www.route-one.net/news/under-half-of-bsip-submissions-are-funded-in-1-1bn-award/ — and I don't know how many of the 31 funded areas are actually taking back control and how many are just fiddling around the edges by subsidising day passes or electric buses.

So a related question is are we being forced to keep driving instead of enabled to switch to electric public transport?

 

[icowden]

So a related question is are we being forced to keep driving instead of enabled to switch to electric public transport?

I'd say yes. There is absolutely no sign that the Government want to do anything to improve public transport. If anything it gets worse and worse. They need to get rid of train and bus franchises, nationalise both and simplify the system. Simple cheaper fares and far less money spaffed to shareholders.

 

[Jameshow]

I am perfectly open about owning and using a device - several devices in fact - which uses what might be termed 'dodgy' minerals. Which is why I take an interest in the extraction, production and recycling of such minerals/metals. I try to buy 2nd hand/refurbished if at all possible and dispose of as responsibly as I can, when the time comes.

My gripe is with people who merely want, rather than those who actually need, electronic devices in their widest senses, and especially large. grossly- and multiply-polluting devices such as cars, as I thought I made clear in this post.

WRT cars, if a person needs a new car, then, if they can afford one, a new e-vehicle will (currently) be a greener option than a new ICE vehicle.
If they don't need a new car, the greenest option will probably be to keep the one they already have, look after it well and drive it less. If an existing car is not available, or not suitable for use, then - again if they can afford it - the greener option would probably be to buy a second-hand e-vehicle, if they can find an appropriate one.
If they don't actually need a car at all, but merely want one, there is no green option for them.
If they have only very occasional need of one, the greenest option would be to hire one, but that may not be convenient.
Convenient and green (or even green-ish) are not always happy bed-fellows ...
In all cases, whether or not one truly needs a car, or merely wants a car, and whatever the type of vehicle that is being driven, be it a brand spanking new latest-version e-car or an old ICE banger, driving as little, as considerately and as carefully as possible will improve the driver's green credentials. However, I fear that some - even many - people will consider a new e-vehicle gives them carte blanche to drive more, and faster, than they ever did before ... which rather defeats the purpose of 'being green'.

Don't forget that ev have a long tailpipe.

Only less than 50% of electric is green ( as much as carbon fibre wind turbines are!) The rest is gas and occasionally coal!😭😭😭

 

[mjr]

Don't forget that ev have a long tailpipe.

Only less than 50% of electric is green ( as much as carbon fibre wind turbines are!) The rest is gas and occasionally coal!😭😭😭

But green and gas are both better than oil and EVs are much easier to convert to green fuel.

 

[mjr]

I'd say yes. There is absolutely no sign that the Government want to do anything to improve public transport. If anything it gets worse and worse. They need to get rid of train and bus franchises, nationalise both and simplify the system. Simple cheaper fares and far less money spaffed to shareholders.

I think nowhere has bus franchises lately and rail franchises have gone. It's still not nationalisation, though. Why would nationalising work any better this time than last? Sort of worked for a while, then cash-starved then sold off as soon as a party thinks they can get away with it.

 

[FishFright]

I'm reading elsewhere that the much-vaunted new power granted by gov.uk to let other areas take over control of public transport and run it under Transport-for-London-style operator contracts hasn't actually been accompanied by enough funding to do that. There was some competitive bidding process and more than half of areas got no funding, says https://www.route-one.net/news/under-half-of-bsip-submissions-are-funded-in-1-1bn-award/ — and I don't know how many of the 31 funded areas are actually taking back control and how many are just fiddling around the edges by subsidising day passes or electric buses.

So a related question is are we being forced to keep driving instead of enabled to switch to electric public transport?

Not quite as bad as their 'levelling up' proposals which come with no funding what so ever.

 

[icowden]

Only less than 50% of electric is green ( as much as carbon fibre wind turbines are!) The rest is gas and occasionally coal!😭😭😭

But that is out of the control of the EV owner. That is down to Government to address. Germany has a target of 80% renewable by 2030. China is investing heavily in renewables. New Zealand and Norway are nearly at 100% renewable.

Instead we have a bunch of clowns who want to start fracking and extracting more north sea oil.

 

[figbat]

Don't forget that ev have a long tailpipe.

Only less than 50% of electric is green ( as much as carbon fibre wind turbines are!) The rest is gas and occasionally coal!😭😭😭

As has been said a couple of times upthread, the energy mix for EV is gradually changing in favour of cleaner and more sustainable sources, so over time an EV will become 'greener'. An ICE car will always use 100% hydrocarbon fuel.