Are we being forced to go electric?

[fossyant]

I still can’t see how going green means buying a two-tonne-plus electric car with its Congo cobalt and its Chinese-mined lithium and its Chinese-made battery cells and a likely carbon manufacturing footprint of circa 20 tonnes, often higher.

And our leccy car drivers are using leccy bikes too. Check out user profiles ! My horrible gas burning car hasn't moved in a month....I've used the bike or used the iccle Aygo we have. My horrible car, is a 1.8 saloon.

My old 30 year old MTB tank is in use for the commute....

You have to compare like with like.

Skipping service just increases likelihood of earlier failure.

It's a fair comparison, highlighting ~ 82% less to own an EV for maintenance costs alone.

Then there is the huge, I mean huge fuel savings. If you invest in solar, then in absolute no time , solar has paid itself off and free electric travel thereon in

Huge fuel savings but also a huge capital increase in outlay - possibly equal each other out if you keep the vehicle a long time, not if you like to change them.

I also think you are more likely tied to the stealership network should the car need work, hopefully independants will be able to do stuff at some point, otherwise they will be out of business.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Got to agree, average price of £250 to £300 per service on an ICE vehicle, 10 years worth of servicing is going to be £2500 to £3000 over the cars life time, even my van which is doing starship mileage each month won’t rack up 300,000 miles, that’s not quite ten years of constant use if it’s kept, which it won’t be, but the service interval is 25,000 miles or yearly, which ever comes first, so that’s 12 services, up to 300,000 miles probably cost £4200 to £4500

add in the price difference buying an EV as well . Take that over the way folk buy cars . So over the 3/4yr PCP . How much of a saving ?

 

[CXRAndy]

I still can’t see how going green means buying a two-tonne-plus electric car with its Congo cobalt and its Chinese-mined lithium and its Chinese-made battery cells and a likely carbon manufacturing footprint of circa 20 tonnes, often higher.

You wont either, blinkered to the need to change, ignoring the basic facts. Go and read the twitter points, if you dont believe them go and do further research instead of rolling out the usual Congo, Chinese this rubbish

 

[MrGrumpy]

Above member has me on ignore but for the rest go back to the beginning of the thread and read some of the answers again. Nothing has changed really apart from the price of leccy . It costs even more now to run an electric car. Pricing is even more stupid and getting one is also not quite so easy !

The best thing you could do for the environment is drive less and/or keep your current car going !

 

[cougie uk]

Above member has me on ignore but for the rest go back to the beginning of the thread and read some of the answers again. Nothing has changed really apart from the price of leccy . It costs even more now to run an electric car. Pricing is even more stupid and getting one is also not quite so easy !

The best thing you could do for the environment is drive less and/or keep your current car going !

I think everyone gets that the best thing is to not drive at all. I'm all for that.

But if you are buying your next car - an EV can make a lot of sense.

Sure electric has gone up - for me it's 7.5p per kWh so that's £3.15 for a 140 mile fill.

I reckon my yeti would cost about £30 for that distance.

We do about 13000 miles in the EV so it adds up.

So maybe £300 a year electric Vs £2800 a year petrol.

A couple of charges on the mway will add a bit to the electric bill but it's the thick end of £2500 a year on fuel.

Now to see about getting solar....

 

[MrGrumpy]

If you can make it work the fine , it’s just not quite there for all the reasons given already.

As for solar it’s a minefield , with an awful lot of chancers . Not found anyone yet that comes across as trustworthy.

 

[Alex321]

Above member has me on ignore but for the rest go back to the beginning of the thread and read some of the answers again. Nothing has changed really apart from the price of leccy . It costs even more now to run an electric car. Pricing is even more stupid and getting one is also not quite so easy !

The best thing you could do for the environment is drive less and/or keep your current car going !

Straw man.

Nobody has argued otherwise.

There are arguments that some of us don't really have much choice, but I think we all agree that the best thing for the planet is for us all to drive les, and have fewer vehicles per person.

 

[Gunk]

You wont either, blinkered to the need to change, ignoring the basic facts. Go and read the twitter points, if you dont believe them go and do further research instead of rolling out the usual Congo, Chinese this rubbish

I’m not blinkered to need to change, I’m just reluctant to change, I drive 20,000 business miles a year so with the current infrastructure it doesn’t quite work and colleagues who have made the change are finding it challenging, especially longer trips.

however with the expanding ULEZ zone in Oxford we are thinking of swapping Mrs Gunks Golf GTD for an eGolf or BMW i3, as it will be perfect for short trips. However I’m still not convinced that EV’s are quite the planet saver they claim to be, but that just my suburban, narrow minded view.

 

[JhnBssll]

EV's are a small step in the right direction, nothing more. It'll take significant development of infrastructure and a step change in global lifestyles to make a real difference.

 

[MrGrumpy]

EV's are a small step in the right direction, nothing more. It'll take significant development of infrastructure and a step change in global lifestyles to make a real difference.

Again I look at the joined up transport links in Germany and how easy and quick to get from a to b and then look at what has happened here . I’d love to get rid of my car but I cannot rely on the public transport !

 

[mjr]

Above member has me on ignore but for the rest go back to the beginning of the thread and read some of the answers again. Nothing has changed really apart from the price of leccy . It costs even more now to run an electric car.

Hasn't the price of petrol also increased?

 

[FishFright]

I can't see how ANYTHING which uses rare earths and/or is manufactured thousands of miles away, can be called 'green'. GreenER than some other things, certainly, but not free of damage to the environment.

So that's ICE cars out , their electronics are full of them . As is whatever device you posted this from.

 

[Alex321]

So that's ICE cars out , their electronics are full of them . As is whatever device you posted this from.

Of course.

Not sure what your point is, since he accepted they were greenER than ICE cars.

 

[roubaixtuesday]

The best thing you could do for the environment is drive less and/or keep your current car going !

I think it's important to be clear about what such statements mean.

In carbon emissions terms, even scrapping a perfectly good ICE car pays back in 4 years. So unless your car will be scrapped anyway within 4 years, its better for climate change to scrap it now. I've previously posted the source for this.

The overall environmental impact is much harder to judge, but it's far from clear to me that the mining of materials for electric cars is more damaging than the extraction of (far larger) volumes of oil to run ICE cars. And in the long term, electric cars are far more recyclable than ice cars, if you include the fuel.

I absolutely agree that owning less cars and driving less (and actually, driving smaller and slower cars) is more important than what you drive if and when you do drive.

It would be nice if this thread reflected these nuances more, rather than the very black and white views often expressed.

 

[FishFright]

Of course.

Not sure what your point is, since he accepted they were greenER than ICE cars.

It was the rare earths things that prompted my reply