Are we being forced to go electric?

[ClichéGuevara]

As has been said a couple of times upthread, the energy mix for EV is gradually changing in favour of cleaner and more sustainable sources, so over time an EV will become 'greener'. An ICE car will always use 100% hydrocarbon fuel.

That's not strictly correct, as there were a number of alternative fuels being investigated prior to the ban, some of which are still progressing. There are also biofuels which alter the timeframe for EV's being less harmful than other types of power.

 

[cougie uk]

Don't forget that ev have a long tailpipe.

Only less than 50% of electric is green ( as much as carbon fibre wind turbines are!) The rest is gas and occasionally coal!😭😭😭

How much of petrol is generated by the sun or wind ? I'd be very surprised if it's not zero...

And as has been said - renewables are increasing year on year. A good thing - no ?

 

[Alex321]

How much of petrol is generated by the sun or wind ? I'd be very surprised if it's not zero...

It is fractionally more than zero due to used cooking oil being recycled as biodiesel.

And arguably vegetable oil is generated by the sun

But of course, you are still burning hydrocarbons there, even if renewable, so still adding the harmful byproducts to the atmosphere.

 

[MrGrumpy]

Well as luck would have it, the wife’s E Class Coupe is in for a recall and service. General manager brought a replacement EQC400 for running about in till it’s ready to be picked up. It’s quite nippy and could see myself in one. I’d need to check the price

So not probably what your average punter is buying. However the EQC is based on the GLC , price difference between the two , is approx £20k . From what I can see . Maybe that differential will come down as time moves on.

 

[KnittyNorah]

Don't forget that ev have a long tailpipe.

Only less than 50% of electric is green ( as much as carbon fibre wind turbines are!) The rest is gas and occasionally coal!😭😭😭

Yes I know. All the more reason for minimising one's usage of EVs along with ICE vehicles, regardless of their supposed green credentials.

 

[Gunk]

I'd say yes. There is absolutely no sign that the Government want to do anything to improve public transport. If anything it gets worse and worse. They need to get rid of train and bus franchises, nationalise both and simplify the system. Simple cheaper fares and far less money spaffed to shareholders.

I’m in London all day tomorrow with work, £80 return from Oxford to Paddington (including the Tube) no wonder people use their car.

 

[DRM]

I’m in London all day tomorrow with work, £80 return from Oxford to Paddington (including the Tube) no wonder people use their car.

But have you seen how much railway staff get paid, it’s no wonder tickets are so expensive

 

[icowden]

I’m in London all day tomorrow with work, £80 return from Oxford to Paddington (including the Tube) no wonder people use their car.

You say that but by the time you have paid for petrol / diesel, the ULEZ, the congestion charge and a days parking in Central London, that train ticket is looking like a bargain!!

On a more serious note, if you try doing that trip as a family of 4, then the car is a no-brainer.

 

[icowden]

Incidentally, today there is a really good example of the way that the media seems to report in a way that makes EVs look bad.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-62996103

Tesla ordered to recall more than a million US cars​

What? This must be a major problem right?

Tesla is recalling nearly 1.1 million cars in the US because the windows might close too fast and pinch people's fingers.

Oh, ok - minor problem but that's a lot of cars to bring into service centres, not to mention compensating people whilst their cars are off the road.

Oh hang on...

Tesla chief executive Elon Musk criticised the use of the term "recall", tweeting: "The terminology is outdated & inaccurate. This is a tiny over-the-air software update. To the best of our knowledge, there have been no injuries." Tesla discovered the problem with the automatic windows during production testing in August.

So wouldn't a better headline / article have been:

Tesla ordered to roll out a minor software update to more than a million cars, even though they were planning to do it having discovered the problem themselves during routine testing.​

Unusually in the USA when a car company discovers a fault, they report it to the American regulators who then order them to fix it, even if they were going to do so anyway. Previous recalls have been for rear-view cameras, bonnet latches, seat belt reminders and sound system software. However unlike old fashioned ICE cars, nearly all of the faults have been dealt with seamlessly by providing free over the air software updates, thus demonstrating how quickly and safely EVs can be adjusted.

 

[Buck]

But then that wouldn’t be a “good” news story. The press feed on sensationalist rubbish a lot of the time. The next headline could equally be “Petrol and Diesel cars are killing our children” or “Man washing his new Tesla car electrocuted !”

 

[figbat]

Incidentally, today there is a really good example of the way that the media seems to report in a way that makes EVs look bad.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-62996103

What? This must be a major problem right?

Oh, ok - minor problem but that's a lot of cars to bring into service centres, not to mention compensating people whilst their cars are off the road.

Oh hang on...


So wouldn't a better headline / article have been:


Unusually in the USA when a car company discovers a fault, they report it to the American regulators who then order them to fix it, even if they were going to do so anyway. Previous recalls have been for rear-view cameras, bonnet latches, seat belt reminders and sound system software. However unlike old fashioned ICE cars, nearly all of the faults have been dealt with seamlessly by providing free over the air software updates, thus demonstrating how quickly and safely EVs can be adjusted.

Agreed. Typical sensationalism for click-baiting. My EV has an outstanding software update which needs it to go to the dealers. It could either be:

ALL MINI EVs IN SAFETY RECALL DUE TO CRASH FIRE RISK

or

MINI SERVICE BULLETIN ISSUED TO UPDATE HOW CARS REPORT WHAT THEY ARE TO EMERGENCY SERVICES

The crux of it is that the onboard SOS system is not set to flag that it's an EV. It's a service bulletin and has no bearing on every day use, so I'm waiting until it needs to go in for another reason to get it updated, since it means several hours in the dealer and will reset my user profiles. Anybody can find out what car it is from its registration number. I'd love it to happen OTA but most EVs are way behind Tesla on that front.

 

[mjr]

You say that but by the time you have paid for petrol / diesel, the ULEZ, the congestion charge and a days parking in Central London, that train ticket is looking like a bargain!!

Lowest fare is £30 day return, bought on the day, if one can travel off peak. It can be slightly cheaper bought in advance and locked to particular trains, but those sell out.

On a more serious note, if you try doing that trip as a family of 4, then the car is a no-brainer.

Family tickets (2adult+2children) start from £42 day return, on the day. No-brainer comparisons often assume the price for 4 is 4 times the individual price but it often isn't. I hoped the way EV charging cost varies massively might make people more familiar with price ranges for a journey, but it's not happened yet!

 

[icowden]

Family tickets (2adult+2children) start from £42 day return, on the day. No-brainer comparisons often assume the price for 4 is 4 times the individual price but it often isn't. I hoped the way EV charging cost varies massively might make people more familiar with price ranges for a journey, but it's not happened yet!

Unfortunately that isn't reliable. At time of looking the Trainline has tickets for £102 peak morning and £89.70 off peak if I wanted to go on Monday.
Yes, if you can plan a month in advance, go off peak, and cross your fingers that the train won't be cancelled, you can get cheaper fares.

Ulez and Congestion = £27.50. Diesel = about £10-£15 each way. So £57.50. JustPark can find me parking in London for between £11 and £16. So £73.
I don't have to cross my fingers, change train, sit with people who might have Covid etc. Just drive and sit in traffic.

If I have an EV, than Ulez and congestion = £0. Electricity = £5 each way tops unless I need to use a supercharger. So it would cost me about £20-£25

 

[mjr]

Unfortunately that isn't reliable. At time of looking the Trainline has tickets for £102 peak morning and £89.70 off peak if I wanted to go on Monday.

Never ever trust Trainline. Even when they do deign to sell the correct cheapest ticket, they normally add a booking fee. Use train companies or honest sites like https://tickets.railforums.co.uk/ but often a ticket office is best, if yours hasn't been cut back yet.

 

[icowden]

Never ever trust Trainline. Even when they do deign to sell the correct cheapest ticket, they normally add a booking fee. Use train companies or honest sites like https://tickets.railforums.co.uk/ but often a ticket office is best, if yours hasn't been cut back yet.

But regardless, the difference just generally isn't that great. Now an example of where it does work...

My parents in law are now a pensioners, but my Mother in Law still works one or two days a week and my Father In Law still attends home games at Chelsea. They live in the New Forest. They used to drive up and stay with my brother in law when needing to be in this area. They now tend to get the train - because their freedom passes make it much more economical to do so.

On the other hand if we visit them, it's cheaper and easier to drive. I didn't mention previously the cost and hassle involved of just getting to the train station also needs to be factored in.