Are we being forced to go electric?

[mjr]

On the other hand if we visit them, it's cheaper and easier to drive.

That's only universally true if the driver's time is worthless and driving a road vehicle is considered somehow easier than sitting on a seat. Sometimes driving may still be cheaper, but rarely easier. There seems to be huge societal blind spots about the difficulty of driving, where it's almost taboo to say it's not simple.

 

[cougie uk]

That's only universally true if the driver's time is worthless and driving a road vehicle is considered somehow easier than sitting on a seat. Sometimes driving may still be cheaper, but rarely easier. There seems to be huge societal blind spots about the difficulty of driving, where it's almost taboo to say it's not simple.

Also the cost. If you haven't got a car in the first place...

 

[KnittyNorah]

Lowest fare is £30 day return, bought on the day, if one can travel off peak. It can be slightly cheaper bought in advance and locked to particular trains, but those sell out.


Family tickets (2adult+2children) start from £42 day return, on the day. No-brainer comparisons often assume the price for 4 is 4 times the individual price but it often isn't. I hoped the way EV charging cost varies massively might make people more familiar with price ranges for a journey, but it's not happened yet!

Yes, 'standard' individual-journey rail pricing is very misleading.
I organise 'eco day trips and visits' for a local group (eco because we use public transport LOL!). Every visit I've planned so far, I've found worthwhile discounts are available on train services. Even on a service where very few discounts were available, and no advance fares at all, by buying two off-peak returns at a time, I got a 'duo' discount ...

 

[icowden]

Yes, 'standard' individual-journey rail pricing is very misleading.
I organise 'eco day trips and visits' for a local group (eco because we use public transport LOL!). Every visit I've planned so far, I've found worthwhile discounts are available on train services. Even on a service where very few discounts were available, and no advance fares at all, by buying two off-peak returns at a time, I got a 'duo' discount ...

I'm not sure that a public transport model where you only get the best price if you have a degree of expertise is the way forward though...

 

[icowden]

That's only universally true if the driver's time is worthless and driving a road vehicle is considered somehow easier than sitting on a seat.

So my time is better spent driving 20 mins to the station, walking 5 mins from the car park to the platform, waiting on the platform for 15 mins, then sitting on the train for 66 mins (total 101mins) rather than walking out of my front door, putting the bags and kids in the car and driving for an hour and 20 mins (off peak) or a likely max of 120 mins during rush hour.

I don't find driving particularly stressful or difficult and an EV makes it even easier. Lane keeping, car following etc.

 

[cougie uk]

So my time is better spent driving 20 mins to the station, walking 5 mins from the car park to the platform, waiting on the platform for 15 mins, then sitting on the train for 66 mins (total 101mins) rather than walking out of my front door, putting the bags and kids in the car and driving for an hour and 20 mins (off peak) or a likely max of 120 mins during rush hour.

I don't find driving particularly stressful or difficult and an EV makes it even easier. Lane keeping, car following etc.

All that waiting adds up. You could be working remotely.

 

[mjr]

All that waiting adds up. You could be working remotely.

Or I can work for most of that waiting, so my time actually spent on travelling is maybe the 20 minutes cycling to the station, not the 1h20 spent concentrating on driving where I could pretty easily kill someone, possibly myself, if I make mistakes. Hey, is it easier to kill someone with an EV because they're usually heavier and the motor won't stall?

 

[mjr]

I'm not sure that a public transport model where you only get the best price if you have a degree of expertise is the way forward though...

It's not great, but the greater degree of expertise to get the best price from motoring doesn't seem to be a barrier.

 

[icowden]

It's not great, but the greater degree of expertise to get the best price from motoring doesn't seem to be a barrier.

Eh? You either have a car or you don't. Then you drive it from A to B usually using google to tell you where to drive. Petrol and Diesel prices are pretty uniform (or electricity if you have an EV). Your car takes 5 or 7 people. Where is the complexity?

 

[icowden]

All that waiting adds up. You could be working remotely.

But in this scenario we have to get from Oxford to Paddington. You could also be living your best life on a luxury yacht but that doesn't add to the discussion either...

 

[CXRAndy]

Or I can work for most of that waiting, so my time actually spent on travelling is maybe the 20 minutes cycling to the station, not the 1h20 spent concentrating on driving where I could pretty easily kill someone, possibly myself, if I make mistakes. Hey, is it easier to kill someone with an EV because they're usually heavier and the motor won't stall?

EVs don't usually roll when you aren't pressing any pedals. They auto hold on the steepest slopes. EVs invariably come with active anti collision features.

So unless you're a jihadi nutjob looking to wipe out a pedestrian, EVs are extremely safe.


I find driving so relaxing in an EV, lots of safety built-in with lane centering, active auto cruise, steering and anti collision.

A newish feature I noticed on my Model S when on autocruise, the car actively slows down for twisty road sections and then speeds up when the road straightens. If there is a car in front it will of course follow at a safe distance, but again will adapt to road layout automatically

 

[classic33]

Incidentally, today there is a really good example of the way that the media seems to report in a way that makes EVs look bad.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-62996103

What? This must be a major problem right?

Oh, ok - minor problem but that's a lot of cars to bring into service centres, not to mention compensating people whilst their cars are off the road.

Oh hang on...


So wouldn't a better headline / article have been:


Unusually in the USA when a car company discovers a fault, they report it to the American regulators who then order them to fix it, even if they were going to do so anyway. Previous recalls have been for rear-view cameras, bonnet latches, seat belt reminders and sound system software. However unlike old fashioned ICE cars, nearly all of the faults have been dealt with seamlessly by providing free over the air software updates, thus demonstrating how quickly and safely EVs can be adjusted.

A problem with electric Windows isn't just something that can happen on an electric vehicle. It can happen on any vehicle fitted with them.

On the other hand, it's the first vehicle safety recall I've seen due to windows closing too fast.

 

[Baldy]

Parachuting, did a lot in my youth but haven't jumped in thirty years.

Get married, still single after sixty-five years why break the habit of a lifetime.

Grow long hair.

 

[All uphill]

Parachuting, did a lot in my youth but haven't jumped in thirty years.

Get married, still single after sixty-five years why break the habit of a lifetime.

Grow long hair.

I think you may have parachuted into the wrong thread.

 

[KnittyNorah]

I'm not sure that a public transport model where you only get the best price if you have a degree of expertise is the way forward though...

No it clearly isn't. And neither is any transport model which requires a person to be able to afford and to drive a car, whatever their abilities or wishes, the way forward, either.

However, showing a person how to best use a ticketing system is somewhat cheaper, easier and safer than is providing a severely visually impaired person (such as I was for several years), or a convicted drunk driver, or someone living with active epilepsy, with a car and the ability to drive it ...

A good, comprehensive and affordable public transport system enables everyone to travel more easily and enjoyably, whatever their restraints or requirements may be.