Afraid of descending

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Pat "5mph"

A kilogrammicaly challenged woman
Moderator
Location
Glasgow
@I like Skol we are going OT, but, what about the oncoming driver?
If they come round a bend, don't see you signaling?
Or the driver emerging from the junction you want into, thinks you're going straight?
Cycle training was right :whistle:
 

Venod

Eh up
Location
Yorkshire
Descent to Woodhead ...

Made me shudder looking at it, I have posted before about my shimmy at 45mph coming down there.

A bad descending experience takes some getting over, on Friday after watching the TDY I followed a fellow club member down Garrowby Hill, he was a demon descender, but coming down the North side of Buttertubs he had a spectacular off, on Friday I had to overtake him, I was concerned my brakes were getting too warm.

I do use the back brake sparingly, but its a lifetime habit, Yellow Saddle offers some good advice.
 
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I like Skol

A Minging Manc...
@I like Skol we are going OT, but, what about the oncoming driver?
If they come round a bend, don't see you signaling?
Or the driver emerging from the junction you want into, thinks you're going straight?
Cycle training was right :whistle:
Pat, maybe I am assuming all drivers have the experience and ability I credit myself with? My experience has taught me that, on the whole, I am capable of predicting what a fellow road user will do based on their road position or actions prior to their current position. Which ever direction I am approaching that junction from I would expect a slow moving cyclist in the middle of the road to be turning right. I would optimistically hope that all other drivers would reach the same conclusion......
 

Alan O

Über Member
Location
Liverpool
Now, what is the frictional tax on the tyres if you corner at 2 and brake at 2 simultaneously? By frictional tax I mean the combined effect that has to be resisted by the tyres. Remember, the tyre can take 5 at most.
I'll have a go - is it a simple as 4?

Thinking that as long as the total "frictional tax" must be 5 or less, then any combination that adds up to 5 or less should be safe. So as long as you're at less than 5 on cornering, you have some left that you can use for braking.
 

ColinJ

Puzzle game procrastinator!
Pat, maybe I am assuming all drivers have the experience and ability I credit myself with? My experience has taught me that, on the whole, I am capable of predicting what a fellow road user will do based on their road position or actions prior to their current position. Which ever direction I am approaching that junction from I would expect a slow moving cyclist in the middle of the road to be turning right. I would optimistically hope that all other drivers would reach the same conclusion......
Unfortunately, that isn't a safe assumption to make - look at what happened to poor Michele Scarponi last week!

I usually overtake cars when dropping off Holme Moss, especially on the twisty Holmfirth side!!!! :hyper:
See above ... :whistle:

I admit that it is very tempting when you have an overcautious driver ahead of you though!

I once went to overtake a tractor on the descent from Pecket Well to Hebden Bridge and the farmer pulled out slightly just before I got level with him. The tractor had one of those big spikes used for picking up straw bales on the back and the farmer hadn't raised it to a safe position - I came worryingly close to impaling myself on it! :eek:

I have struggled to get much above 50 mph down there despite several attempts in seemingly ideal conditions. My current best bike does seem to be slightly faster again so it may be worth another attempt? The worst bit of that descent is up at the top before the moorland opens out. There is a bit of a kick in the road surface and it does feel as though you are close to take off, quite unnerving the first couple of times!
That's because you are a honed athlete, not benefiting from lard power! :okay:

I really noticed the difference when chasing @nickyboy down to Woodhead a few years back. I had lost over 4 stone in weight and I couldn't get to over 50 mph either that time. I'm not saying that nickyboy was employing lard power, more, er, 'muscular build' power! :laugh:
 
OP
OP
daisyj

daisyj

Über Member
Location
Somerset
@daisyj I am terrified of descending too, and that's on hybrids, as my road bike has been a wall ornament since I bought it, as I'm terrified of it on the flat :laugh:
For some strange reason, rim brakes give me more confidence, I feel I can control the bike better.
I do the "feathering" thing, but after reading @Yellow Saddle's post I'm going to start using only my front brake downhill, maybe it will feel better.
Question:
what do you do if riding a steep downhill and needing to turn right in the middle of it, but also maybe you need to stop for incoming traffic, and of course signal right?
I feel reassured it's not just me! I've tweaked my route to try again at the weekend to avoid the worst descent - it was made worse by potholes, gravel and twigs so I couldn't pick a line to follow very easily. I'm going to try and improve my feathering first and if that doesn't help, try the front brake if I'm brave enough!

Road bikes are quite lovely to look at so you've got a great ornament until you get out on it!
 
Location
Loch side.
I'll have a go - is it a simple as 4?

Thinking that as long as the total "frictional tax" must be 5 or less, then any combination that adds up to 5 or less should be safe. So as long as you're at less than 5 on cornering, you have some left that you can use for braking.

Ah, someone is paying attention. I was getting depressed there.

No, it isn't. I take it you are responding to the 2 and 2 scenario?

The answer is 2.82. I'll give you some time to chew on it. However, most people guess 4 and ride as if it is 4 even if they don't know the answer. This one isn't instinctive.
 

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
I had a front tyre blow out going down a steep twisty road (Ditchling Beacon) about a year ago, at 30 mph. Battered and bruised but no real damage but I still haven't got my confidence back.
 

nickyboy

Norven Mankey
Unfortunately, that isn't a safe assumption to make - look at what happened to poor Michele Scarponi last week!


See above ... :whistle:

I admit that it is very tempting when you have an overcautious driver ahead of you though!

I once went to overtake a tractor on the descent from Pecket Well to Hebden Bridge and the farmer pulled out slightly just before I got level with him. The tractor had one of those big spikes used for picking up straw bales on the back and the farmer hadn't raised it to a safe position - I came worryingly close to impaling myself on it! :eek:


That's because you are a honed athlete, not benefiting from lard power! :okay:

I really noticed the difference when chasing @nickyboy down to Woodhead a few years back. I had lost over 4 stone in weight and I couldn't get to over 50 mph either that time. I'm not saying that nickyboy was employing lard power, more, er, 'muscular build' power! :laugh:

As you know @ColinJ the shape with greatest volume/surface area is a sphere and thus a sphere will descend more quickly than any other shape. Riders closer to the sphere shape will do likewise. I am that sphere

BTW, I don't think 100km/hr is really achievable on Holme Moss. I've done the descent with very favourable tailwind and only managed 90. Certainly none of the Strava cyclists have managed to hit the ton

On subject of right turns down a steep hill (I have one near me), my tekker is to have a very obvious look behind before I do anything else. That usually lets a following car driver know I'm about to do something. Then a quick hand signal (it can't be a slow, leisurely one as I need my right hand for braking), then move out to right hand side of the lane. If something is coming the other way and stops me turning right then I just brake to a stop near the centre line, otherwise I'm banking it over and hoping Yellow Saddles 2+2 or whatever still applies
 

nickyboy

Norven Mankey
I had a front tyre blow out going down a steep twisty road (Ditchling Beacon) about a year ago, at 30 mph. Battered and bruised but no real damage but I still haven't got my confidence back.

Front tyre blow outs are a total nightmare. I had one descending the Cat and Fiddle into Buxton (I ran over a huge bolt lying in the road). I was really lucky....I had just enough room to steer straight and bring it to a stop from high speed. If it had been on one of the many bends I would have been off. Like you, it affected my confidence descending for some time.
 

Katherine

Guru
Moderator
Location
Manchester
@daisyj I am terrified of descending too, and that's on hybrids, as my road bike has been a wall ornament since I bought it, as I'm terrified of it on the flat :laugh:
For some strange reason, rim brakes give me more confidence, I feel I can control the bike better.
I do the "feathering" thing, but after reading @Yellow Saddle's post I'm going to start using only my front brake downhill, maybe it will feel better.
Question:
what do you do if riding a steep downhill and needing to turn right in the middle of it, but also maybe you need to stop for incoming traffic, and of course signal right?

But cycle training says you must signal until you're into the turn.
So you need to brake with your left, ie the back brake. :tongue:

Pat, I have to turn right on a steep downhill on one of my routes. I signal right whilst braking with my left hand and take the middle of the lane well before so that traffic behind me doesn't try to pass. Then I keep both hands on as I continue to descend, braking as much or little as necessary ready to then signal again as I approach the right turn and move over to the centre line. If there is no oncoming traffic, I'll take the turn with both hands on. If there's traffic coming, I'll stop and put my arm out again until I can go.
 
Location
Loch side.
I had a front tyre blow out going down a steep twisty road (Ditchling Beacon) about a year ago, at 30 mph. Battered and bruised but no real damage but I still haven't got my confidence back.

It's hard to get that confidence back. Very hard.

Do you know why the tyre blew? Were you braking hard or had been dragging the brake. Can you remember what the tyre was inflated to?
 

rich p

ridiculous old lush
Location
Brighton
It's hard to get that confidence back. Very hard.

Do you know why the tyre blew? Were you braking hard or had been dragging the brake. Can you remember what the tyre was inflated to?
I never really found out for sure. The tyre was in good nick but afterwards there was a gash in the sidewall, close enough to have been caused by rubbing on the block over time. I didnt think that was likely but I don't entirely rule out schoolboy error for sure. I assumed I'd hit something previousy and hard front breaking caused the failure. I generally run my tyres at 100 psi.
 

Jody

Stubborn git
Ah, someone is paying attention. I was getting depressed there.

No, it isn't. I take it you are responding to the 2 and 2 scenario?

The answer is 2.82. I'll give you some time to chew on it. However, most people guess 4 and ride as if it is 4 even if they don't know the answer. This one isn't instinctive.

I'm glad someone else took a guess at 4. Would like to know how you get to 2.82.
 
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