Afraid of descending

[Sharky]

Is that the descent down Cotman's Ash Lane towards Heaverham? I went that way yesterday. It's one of my favourite London escape routes.

That's the one. Some really nice roads in that area - quite a contrast from nearby motorways and A roads

 

[Jody]

That cannot be far off what the tyre can take as adhesion is already being used to corner. If you are going straight then it will be 0-5 and hard conering will be 5-0

 

[KnackeredBike]

OK, I understand.

Most people underestimate how much they can safely brake in a turn. It is difficult to quantify but I find that this little questioning method works. I'll try it on you, if you feel like playing. Others can also guess along.

The numbers are basically irrelevant because the problem with braking whilst cornering (on a pushbike or car) is that you have very little weight on the back wheel so the risk (especially if you hit a bump or poor road surface) is that the rear wheel will slide out in a thrilling but ultimately impossible to control skid. Indeed, the front wheel continues to grip which is why you spin too.

Done it myself twice and the bike goes from underneath you without any warning.

Obviously when you scrub off the speed in a straight line this isn't a problem.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

The numbers are basically irrelevant because the problem with braking whilst cornering (on a pushbike or car) is that you have very little weight on the back wheel so the risk (especially if you hit a bump or poor road surface) is that the rear wheel will slide out in a thrilling but ultimately impossible to control skid. Indeed, the front wheel continues to grip which is why you spin too.

Done it myself twice and the bike goes from underneath you without any warning.

Obviously when you scrub off the speed in a straight line this isn't a problem.

Of course the numbers are important. They describe how much leeway you have for using brakes during cornering. How would you attempt to quantify the amount of grip available to you if not using numbers within given parameters?

 

[Yellow Saddle]

That cannot be far off what the tyre can take as adhesion is already being used to corner. If you are going straight then it will be 0-5 and hard conering will be 5-0

Yes, that's a given, but the question was how much do you think you can have of the one AND the other.

 

[KnackeredBike]

Of course the numbers are important. They describe how much leeway you have for using brakes during cornering. How would you attempt to quantify the amount of grip available to you if not using numbers within given parameters?

Because braking whilst travelling in a straight line is predictable and easy to measure. As soon as you start cornering you basically have an unknown quantity of weight on the back wheel, which is affected by amount of speed/braking and rider position, times the traction in the rear tyre. It is not as simplistic as x-y, but under the heaviest possible braking it will be nearly nothing.

 

[cubey]

I am very cautious on descents, climbed Home Moss the other weekend and my descent wasn't pretty. Kept the pressure on the disc brakes way to long, resulting in horrible sounds when braking for the next few miles. Fine now though.

 

[ColinJ]

I am very cautious on descents, climbed Home Moss the other weekend and my descent wasn't pretty. Kept the pressure on the disc brakes way to long, resulting in horrible sounds when braking for the next few miles. Fine now though.

I am not generally a nervous descender but the descent off Holme Moss definitely deserves respect in both directions! On a day without a headwind you could soon be doing 100 km/hr and there are often gusting crosswinds up there. I got blown across the road one time by a sudden gust; I've been more cautious on that descent since then!

Descent to Woodhead ...

 

[J1888]

Im kinda similar to the OP, but I find that I can go down a descent quickly and on the drops and then get a sense of my own mortality and lift up on to the hoods and then gently squeeze the breaks intermittently to slow my speed and avoid what feels like an inevitable, nasty crash! I'm 31 but wish I had the gumption of my 13 year old self

 

[Pat "5mph"]

@daisyj I am terrified of descending too, and that's on hybrids, as my road bike has been a wall ornament since I bought it, as I'm terrified of it on the flat
For some strange reason, rim brakes give me more confidence, I feel I can control the bike better.
I do the "feathering" thing, but after reading @Yellow Saddle's post I'm going to start using only my front brake downhill, maybe it will feel better.
Question:
what do you do if riding a steep downhill and needing to turn right in the middle of it, but also maybe you need to stop for incoming traffic, and of course signal right?

 

[nickyboy]

I am very cautious on descents, climbed Home Moss the other weekend and my descent wasn't pretty. Kept the pressure on the disc brakes way to long, resulting in horrible sounds when braking for the next few miles. Fine now though.

Holme Moss descents (in either direction) are great. Just close your eyes and hold on tight. That's my descending top tip

 

[I like Skol]

I am very cautious on descents, climbed Home Moss the other weekend and my descent wasn't pretty. Kept the pressure on the disc brakes way to long, resulting in horrible sounds when braking for the next few miles. Fine now though.

I usually overtake cars when dropping off Holme Moss, especially on the twisty Holmfirth side!!!!

I am not generally a nervous descender but the descent off Holme Moss definitely deserves respect in both directions! On a day without a headwind you could soon be doing 100 km/hr and there are often gusting crosswinds up there. I got blown across the road one time by a sudden gust; I've been more cautious on that descent since then!

Descent to Woodhead ...

View attachment 350528

I have struggled to get much above 50 mph down there despite several attempts in seemingly ideal conditions. My current best bike does seem to be slightly faster again so it may be worth another attempt? The worst bit of that descent is up at the top before the moorland opens out. There is a bit of a kick in the road surface and it does feel as though you are close to take off, quite unnerving the first couple of times!

@daisyj I am terrified of descending too, and that's on hybrids, as my road bike has been a wall ornament since I bought it, as I'm terrified of it on the flat
For some strange reason, rim brakes give me more confidence, I feel I can control the bike better.
I do the "feathering" thing, but after reading @Yellow Saddle's post I'm going to start using only my front brake downhill, maybe it will feel better.
Question:
what do you do if riding a steep downhill and needing to turn right in the middle of it, but also maybe you need to stop for incoming traffic, and of course signal right?

I can vouch for Pat's hopeless downhill skills having witnessed her get off the bike and walk down quite short depressions in the trail
The point about braking while wanting to signal a right turn on a downhill stretch is easily answered. Signal when starting the manoeuvre and then let your road position tell people what you are doing. Don't turn right from the gutter, be out at the centre line.

 

[Yellow Saddle]

@daisyj I am terrified of descending too, and that's on hybrids, as my road bike has been a wall ornament since I bought it, as I'm terrified of it on the flat
For some strange reason, rim brakes give me more confidence, I feel I can control the bike better.
I do the "feathering" thing, but after reading @Yellow Saddle's post I'm going to start using only my front brake downhill, maybe it will feel better.
Question:
what do you do if riding a steep downhill and needing to turn right in the middle of it, but also maybe you need to stop for incoming traffic, and of course signal right?

That's where exceptions come in. Of course then you would use both brakes. Note that I'm talking about absolute maximum braking. That's when front-only is safest. However, when conditions are slippery, you would use both. I use my front 90% of the time, I'd say. I can see this from brake block wear. My rear blocks almost never need replacement. I'd say I replace 5 pairs front for each rear pair.

The trick is practice and conditioning. Practice on good surface first, then on poorer surfaces. This rule does not hold for gravel, which requires a totally different approach.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

The point about braking while wanting to signal a right turn on a downhill stretch is easily answered. Signal when starting the manoeuvre and then let your road position tell people what you are doing. Don't turn right from the gutter, be out at the centre line.

But cycle training says you must signal until you're into the turn.
So you need to brake with your left, ie the back brake.

 

[I like Skol]

But cycle training says you must signal until you're into the turn.

I question the value of that cycle training!
I teach my 11yr old to signal if there are following cars to see it, and once he has moved towards the centre of the road he should/must have both hands on the handlebars/brakes to ensure he has full control of the bike. If a following driver can't work out that a bicycle 1ft from the centreline and slowing down at the approach to a right turn is probably turning right then waving an arm isn't likely to make much difference.
Trouble is the little bugger keeps signaling right and doing the manoeuvre non-handed! I don't know where he learned that?