berty bassett
Legendary Member
- Location
- I'boro
spot on ! thats what i need ! - least now if it all goes tits up i can only blame myself - thanks all
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
We have booked a carer for HID so no need to rush 
Closed roads is worth about 1.5 to 2mph, no stopping at lights, junctions etc.. drafting probably a similar speed increase. It's a flat course so if we get a good group going it should be quick.
Is the intention is ToC to ride together as a team? It sounds like last year was everyone for themselves, but I could have read this wrong. It would be good to ride as a group, stopping if anyone has a problem etc.. if it's not going to be like that then I'll probably aim to ride with my son and ping pong between other groups.
Sorry for continuing the debate for those getting bored of it but...
Just picking up on what you said about TOC and the difficulty joining back with the group once dropped @TurboTommy - you are absolutely right about the TOC of course. The difference is that the rider at the front of that group was absolutely nailing it, and those behind less so - I know because I did it for a bit (foolish!!). When the next guy took over in front they upped their power to keep the speed up then dropped back for a rest .. and repeat. The point being made about Zwift is you get a similar situation with a group, whether the guy on front is pushing really hard or not. Again, I have been there many times rolling into the front keeping the watts the same (or lower so I can drop back into the draft ) and the next guy in front does the same etc etc. And yet the group speed still seems to benefit as if there was someone on front nailing it
Anyway you're right that it's just a bit of speculation really - it's just how it seems to me and a few others by the sound of it.
I love a bit of speculation
Just picking up on what you said about TOC and the difficulty joining back with the group once dropped @TurboTommy - you are absolutely right about the TOC of course. The difference is that the rider at the front of that group was absolutely nailing it, and those behind less so - I know because I did it for a bit (foolish!!). When the next guy took over in front they upped their power to keep the speed up then dropped back for a rest .. and repeat. The point being made about Zwift is you get a similar situation with a group, whether the guy on front is pushing really hard or not. Again, I have been there many times rolling into the front keeping the watts the same (or lower so I can drop back into the draft ) and the next guy in front does the same etc etc. And yet the group speed still seems to benefit as if there was someone on front nailing it
Anyway you're right that it's just a bit of speculation really - it's just how it seems to me and a few others by the sound of it.
I love a bit of speculation
There was kind of a natural splitting of the group as the ride progressed based on speed - splits happened on the (few) hills a bit like Zwift!
To be honest there were so many riders around (many of very questionable group riding and bike handling skills ) that it was very hard to safely keep looking round for CC team mates - particularly at the speed we were going. This naturally made it a bit "every man for themselves".
Tommy and I were in the same group for the whole ride (until I cramped up with 5 miles to go) and still we barely had a chance to speak or even really ride next to each other
I think people are confusing 2 things. IRL, there is usually someone or some people driving the pace hard and sharing the load - so the front man pushes harder than the rest and then passes the reins to the next guy who does the same. The contention here is that in Zwift, the extra speed is over-generated by the number of people in the group rather than the power being put out.
None of us have factual evidence to back this up but have empirical and experiential history.
I have raced IRL (only Cat 4) and done loads of large group riding so I do know what the power of the peloton is.
Anyway - it will be interesting to see how races with the new model draft will pan out,
I'm just catching up, so this may have been answered in other posts. If you treat this as a race, then the plan is to draft (sandbag) as much as you can. The hard bit is to stay with fast groups when you hit inclines and changes of pace. So much of it is not about steady state power but ability to go above threshold and recover time after time.
If you are riding with a group of buddies etc then sandbagging is not quite so acceptable
On the last ToC I drafted as much as I could (and even encouraged @CXRAndy to work for us
but couldn't stay with some of the faster groups I was in once we hit gradients. Your normal mph average is interesting but you'll go much faster especially on this sort of ride - as there is no need to ever stop for the whole 100 miles. No traffic, no junctions, traffic lights etc to worry about.
bobinski
Legendary Member
- Location
- Tulse Hill
Tommy is spot on about the efforts at the corners. Unfortunately powering off one of those is when I dropped my chain.
<Tommy>
Illegitimi non carborundum
- Location
- Camden, London
I love a bit of speculation
Well... the good news is you’re not alone apparently!
Just in case there is any misunderstanding I’ve not actually dismissed either option. And @Whorty in particular, I hope I didn’t offend you. But... I’ll call things up when I think they’re based on weak information. No one has said anything to convince me either way to be honest. I guess I like to deal in facts. Decisions based on poor information will invariably often be poor decisions. So I like to see evidence of something before I’ll form an opinion.
Uclown highlighted the fact the the information on the screen often bares little relation to what’s going on from one moment to the next. So really what you / we would need to do would be to set up a controlled experiment to prove it either way. Speculating on how hard the guy on the front might be trying, or speculating how many watts it ‘should’ take to catch a group at a given speed is just that, speculation! Not evidence.
But don’t let me stop you
<Tommy>
Illegitimi non carborundum
- Location
- Camden, London
100% this
Every change of pace youre being asked a question. It’s whether or not you have the right answer. By the end of the ride I felt a bit punch drunk to be honest.
A guy at my work just moved to cat A (guess that would be your cat 1) and is now racing with the big guys. A 2 time world championship podium finisher and the current junior world champion was in his last race. He avg. about 260 watts in his races. Doesn't sound like much but he says that it's extremly tough, when you have to acc. to 50kph out of every corner. He's a very light rider so he can cope with the small hills too. He says you have to be a real bastard to get the good spots in the pack, and he excels in this disciplin ( don't know if that is a compliment
)
berty bassett
Legendary Member
- Location
- I'boro
what if its Bob n co?If you are riding with a group of buddies etc then sandbagging is not quite so acceptable
<Tommy>
Illegitimi non carborundum
- Location
- Camden, London
Well it wouldn’t be Sunday without a quote from the bible so...
‘Do onto others as you would have them do onto you...’
Or as Jesus actually said “Everyman for himself mutherfarkers!
Now watch this wheelie acrosss the lake!!”
Ask bob, he was there in 20AD when Jesus said it
