Zwift Chat

[bridgy]

They’ve reset the seed and ignored previous races. Bonkers. So instead of using recent race data to set the seed, for me 338, they’ve just resorted to what it was previously.

They really are ruining the race experience

At 338 I’m getting dropped in minutes and lapped.

It's not really bonkers it's just that previously ZRS was just being tested - most people won't have even done a ZRS race and had their seed score affected by results.

Makes sense to me that if they're now rolling it out to all public races they reset everyone's ZRS to a new baseline now.

As with when the test started that means there will be some anomolies until people start racing and get their scores adjusted accordingly.

I can't think of any way to avoid some temporary disruption when rolling out a new category system like this - just need to give it a bit of time to settle in.

I hope it works well, I'm looking forward to it

 

[bridgy]

They’ve reset the seed and ignored previous races. Bonkers. So instead of using recent race data to set the seed, for me 338, they’ve just resorted to what it was previously.

They really are ruining the race experience

At 338 I’m getting dropped in minutes and lapped.

Your score can drop 15% below your seed score (set by 30s and 10m power over the past 90 days).

Your score has been reset to the seed score of 397 but can drop by 15% below that, so a few bad results in races and you'll soon be back at that 338 level.

 

[Whorty]

It's not really bonkers it's just that previously ZRS was just being tested - most people won't have even done a ZRS race and had their seed score affected by results.

Makes sense to me that if they're now rolling it out to all public races they reset everyone's ZRS to a new baseline now.

As with when the test started that means there will be some anomolies until people start racing and get their scores adjusted accordingly.

I can't think of any way to avoid some temporary disruption when rolling out a new category system like this - just need to give it a bit of time to settle in.

I hope it works well, I'm looking forward to it

I'm glad you're looking forward to it. many aren't as it's ruined racing for them.

 

[Whorty]

Your score can drop 15% below your seed score (set by 30s and 10m power over the past 90 days).

Your score has been reset to the seed score of 397 but can drop by 15% below that, so a few bad results in races and you'll soon be back at that 338 level.

I was at 338 yesterday in a race, where all riders were below me or not much higher - I was lapped. So yes, I can 'drop' to 338 but that's pretty pointless when my real ZRS is much much lower.

 

[alex_cycles]

I'm baffled by zrs score mine has gone down to 347 so back below 350 and my last 2 races results are a win and 4th and my average w/kg for the last 3 races is 3w/kg and I'm in the bottom cat in Alex races ,
During the last race the spread of abilities in this group was staggering ,as I in 4th place got to the leg snapper about 5km from the finish there was still people on the first climb

You will now be in the middle of the 300-400 band for October - at least to start with. We're shifting down 50 for the boundaries for October as planned. Then back up 50 again for November (probably). Hopefully with all public races after 7th October being ZRS there will be enough data in the system for people to be where they should be within a month or two.

 

[alex_cycles]

I'm glad you're looking forward to it. many aren't as it's ruined racing for them.

I think after such a long break you need to build up your aerobic fitness with base training of long Zone 2 rides. If that doesn't work into your schedule I can't see how racing is going to get more fun any time soon in any scoring system. Once that's in place some sprints to increase the anaerobic capacity.

It is hard to see you struggling like this after all the fun we had in ZRL 2022/3 taking on Hivey and the ART guys. I think you have it in you, but starting again is hard. 😭

 

[Venod]

I too am a bit confused, I am a low C rider, the ZRS, I was in 0-300 with a ZRS of about 250, I was enjoying this grouping as I could keep up with the front groups, then they changed the grouping to 180 to 350, I struggle in these races near the back of the field which is fare enough as obviously the group contains stronger riders, but I have just looked at my latest ZRS and its 297, here's looking forward to it all stabilising.
Although I am a C rider I am never in the front groups in CE races, I hope to be in ZRS races if things work out right.

 

[Legs]

The ZRS system will stop people like Bath Salts sandbagging at the top of the bottom division, but it still only divides the field up into four or five groupings, so the spread of ability is still going to be quite wide in any given race. The alternative to this, though, is to have really small fields, which no-one wants.
What I'm concerned about is that it'll be very difficult to gauge whether you're doing poorly in a weak field, or well in a strong field, because there appears to be quite a lot of variance in how the ZRS field boundaries are applied.

 

[bridgy]

I was at 338 yesterday in a race, where all riders were below me or not much higher - I was lapped. So yes, I can 'drop' to 338 but that's pretty pointless when my real ZRS is much much lower.

The problem you seem to be having right now (apart from the obvious fact that the system is new so we're yet to have the results based adjustments meaning some people will move up and others down) is your power numbers seem to be falling off a cliff, and the ZRS seed score is based on the past 90 days. So in those circumstances a seed score based on the past 90 days is always going to over-state your current ability unfortunately (and vice versa if you're on an upward spiral)

That said, I don't know if it's realistic anyway that you'll drop as low as 179 ZRS even based on your current power? If not, you'll have to also rely on others who lapped you in that race when you were below 350 being upgraded above that, while you drop back down below it. That category might then gradually become a bit better for you.

A quick look at some of those who finished above you suggests this is happening as just about every one I was able to look at from that race was over 350 now.

The only (potential) solution for you is giving it a bit of time to work as it's meant to I guess

 

[Cirrus]

Was about 1km from the end of a race earlier when the riders in front of me turned left and Zwift routed me differently, anyone else come across this?

 

[bridgy]

Was about 1km from the end of a race earlier when the riders in front of me turned left and Zwift routed me differently, anyone else come across this?

It's a glitch I have seen happen a couple of times - you'd think they'd have found a way to solve that fully by now! Very annoying!

 

[bridgy]

The ZRS system will stop people like Bath Salts sandbagging at the top of the bottom division, but it still only divides the field up into four or five groupings, so the spread of ability is still going to be quite wide in any given race. The alternative to this, though, is to have really small fields, which no-one wants

What I'm concerned about is that it'll be very difficult to gauge whether you're doing poorly in a weak field, or well in a strong field, because there appears to be quite a lot of variance in how the ZRS field boundaries are applied.

I think there's a default set of score ranges for each category, but that individual race organisers can apply to change the boundaries. You would know what the boundaries were before you joined the race though so I'm not sure exactly what you mean

 

[Legs]

I think there's a default set of score ranges for each category, but that individual race organisers can apply to change the boundaries. You would know what the boundaries were before you joined the race though so I'm not sure exactly what you mean

That's true. What I think I was getting at was that, with the old A, B, C, D cats, I kind of knew that I'd hope to be in the top third of a 'B' race, or get my head kicked in in an 'A' race. When the boundaries keep moving, it's harder to calibrate your expectations.

I think part of the problem Carl is facing is also that, for a lot of the time that he was ripping up the 'C' races and winning sprints in 'B', his trainer was miscalibrated...

 

[bridgy]

That's true. What I think I was getting at was that, with the old A, B, C, D cats, I kind of knew that I'd hope to be in the top third of a 'B' race, or get my head kicked in in an 'A' race. When the boundaries keep moving, it's harder to calibrate your expectations.

I think part of the problem Carl is facing is also that, for a lot of the time that he was ripping up the 'C' races and winning sprints in 'B', his trainer was miscalibrated...

Ah yeah I see what you mean, yes. Hopefully it will settle into a situation wher the vast majority of races use the same boundaries that we get used to, with just some specific ones changing them - which you did have to some extent in the old system where the occasional race used split categories or was set by age instead of power based cats etc.

 

[IrishAl]

i agree that this is a good move by Zwift and it should hopefully cut out a lot of the sandbaggers who gamed the old system. As with any new process it will take some time to bed in especially as Zwift use the user base as their gineau pigs. In real life racing (at least here in Ireland) when a newbie comes along they have to start in the lowest category and work their way up - I’ve seen it myself with young lads Ripping apart the cat 4’s and 3’s racers as they quickly get the points to upgrade. At least in Zwift you have the option to race up a cat.

As for the varying ZRS cat boundaries I guess this is a good thing if you find yourself on the lower boundary of the old system. At least you know there’s a chance you could be seeded at the upper end in some events. I Had the ‘pleasure’ of a season at the lowest end of A cat in 2019 (I got lapped on an crit race 🫣) and also low B in 2022.

Best to give it a month to settle in rather than toss the toys out of the cage.

Onwards and upwards.