Zwift Chat

[<Tommy>]

My reference regarding popular tv programmes is slightly more linear than ‘they’re popular but crap’. In fact I didn’t say they were crap. My point is more that this stuff is subjective. So using something’s popularity as proof of its quality is moot. See McDonald’s and Donald Trump as examples….

Personally I find the debate surrounding the pros and cons of various race types vs our personal aims more interesting but again, subjective…

 

[alex_cycles]

My reference regarding popular tv programmes is slightly more linear than ‘they’re popular but crap’. In fact I didn’t say they were crap. My point is more that this stuff is subjective. So using something’s popularity as proof of its quality is moot. See McDonald’s and Donald Trump as examples….

Personally I find the debate surrounding the pros and cons of various race types vs our personal aims more interesting but again, subjective…

I like short races. I think I always will. I expect it's because I am (or think I am) better at them than longer ones (relatively high anaerobic capacity?).

But what I have noticed this Autumn is that because of the higher intensity efforts I've been doing on short races, coupled with proper rest and recovery days, I've been doing a lot better in the longer races too. In the WICR series I did last month I got 3 top-10 results on >1hr races (all including a top 3 FTS on a 2-6 minute climb). Some of this is down to having finally learned how to stay in the draft really well.

I don't think I have any training goals at the moment, except to level-up one more time and grab the Aethos before the end of the year and do as well as possible on Cobbled Climbs x4 ZRL next week.

Did my first Zwift race on 7th December last year. Doing my 79th (on ZP) this morning

 

[Peter Salt]

I like short races. I think I always will. I expect it's because I am (or think I am) better at them than longer ones (relatively high anaerobic capacity?).

But what I have noticed this Autumn is that because of the higher intensity efforts I've been doing on short races, coupled with proper rest and recovery days, I've been doing a lot better in the longer races too. In the WICR series I did last month I got 3 top-10 results on >1hr races (all including a top 3 FTS on a 2-6 minute climb). Some of this is down to having finally learned how to stay in the draft really well.

I don't think I have any training goals at the moment, except to level-up one more time and grab the Aethos before the end of the year and do as well as possible on Cobbled Climbs x4 ZRL next week.

Did my first Zwift race on 7th December last year. Doing my 79th (on ZP) this morning

That's it, isn't it?

Going back to the training plans: Literally all of them recommend varying levels and slightly different mix of easy endurance miles and short but intense efforts. ZRL is definitely the latter and thus makes you better overall.

 

[<Tommy>]

I like short races. I think I always will. I expect it's because I am (or think I am) better at them than longer ones (relatively high anaerobic capacity?).

But what I have noticed this Autumn is that because of the higher intensity efforts I've been doing on short races, coupled with proper rest and recovery days, I've been doing a lot better in the longer races too. In the WICR series I did last month I got 3 top-10 results on >1hr races (all including a top 3 FTS on a 2-6 minute climb). Some of this is down to having finally learned how to stay in the draft really well.

I don't think I have any training goals at the moment, except to level-up one more time and grab the Aethos before the end of the year and do as well as possible on Cobbled Climbs x4 ZRL next week.

Did my first Zwift race on 7th December last year. Doing my 79th (on ZP) this morning

That’s some volume Alex, congrats! 👌

I have a slightly different perspective. I think it’s from the racing on bkool in the leagues we did. Basically a very nice chap called Bill, set up a league each month. And he picked a variety of races. Some lumpy, some flat. Sometimes a really big climb. So I sort of just did what was put in from of me. I think back then if I could have chosen like you can today, I would have likely more often than not chosen flatter races as I was nearly 90kg when I started on the turbo. But it didn’t really occur to me what my preference was to be honest. I don’t recall it that way anyway but maybe I’m wrong.

I think now because there is so much more choice it’s very easy to stick to what you like best or are best at. So I totally get that.

Regarding your level of volume on zwift, has that effected the amount of volume you put out in the real world?

@Peter Salt, I think what ZRL doesn’t offer you is proper endurance. But that can be said for most racing on zwift not specifically ZRL. I think maybe ZRL is just more to the extreme end than say a longer race with more constant power. I only say that as someone who then takes their winter racing and endurance rides and tries to take them out in the summer to do endurance rides up mountains. Doing ZRL will get you better at doing ZRL. No doubt about that I don’t think. But with regards to the debate about training, goals etc. I think the conclusion I’m drawing is that my training needs to be a lot more rounded to fulfil my requirements for general riding. Hope that makes sense…

 

[CXRAndy]

Train to what your goals are. If ZRL is your primary thing, lots of races, some Z2, lots of HIT.

Gives you great conditioning

If your into endurance, climbing mountains, tailor more to endurance Z2 multi hour rides with a bit of HIT.

I think the vast majority us could quite easily switch between the two ends of the fitness spectrum without too much additional training.

Eg If I were to want to go to Tenerife for a week's mountain riding, 4-6 weeks of endurance rides would see me cope quite easily. Similarly improving ZRL performance 4-6 weeks of targeted HIT work.

Peaking to absolute performance, that takes a fair bit more time at your chosen discipline.

I don't see hardly anyone being that focused or driven - probably Martin the exception with his yearly ambitions of racing

 

[alex_cycles]

I think now because there is so much more choice it’s very easy to stick to what you like best or are best at. So I totally get that.

That's the danger, but I don't WANT to only do short races. They are a lot of fun though. Just done a 4km TT on a gravel bike
Passed a strong tt-bike rider on a dirt hill - I think he must have been questioning his life choices at that point, but he did get me back later.

Regarding your level of volume on zwift, has that effected the amount of volume you put out in the real world?

In winter, definitely. I CBA to ride when the roads are wet any more or if it's cold. I definitely haven't been outside much since late August/September, but I do ride a lot outside in summer. Next summer I think I'll try and Zwift once a week so as not to lose "Zwift conditioning".

But looking at my stats, for 2022 I'm currently at 7669 miles of which 3660 is indoor. (Volume slightly up on last year.) Think I only did about three 100-milers this year, but did some epic hills from the "100 climbs" series and lots of club rides and some gravel riding. Also did some summer Cx races which were fun. But racing, I've noticed, does bring the overall volume down. It's just not possible to race, rest and do lots of long rides all in the same season. I suppose that's why, traditionally, the base building longer rides are done in the "off-season".

 

[<Tommy>]

Train to what your goals are. If ZRL is your primary thing, lots of races, some Z2, lots of HIT.

Gives you great conditioning

If your into endurance, climbing mountains, tailor more to endurance Z2 multi hour rides with a bit of HIT.

I think the vast majority us could quite easily switch between the two ends of the fitness spectrum without too much additional training.

Eg If I were to want to go to Tenerife for a week's mountain riding, 4-6 weeks of endurance rides would see me cope quite easily. Similarly improving ZRL performance 4-6 weeks of targeted HIT work.

Peaking to absolute performance, that takes a fair bit more time at your chosen discipline.

I don't see hardly anyone being that focused or driven - probably Martin the exception with his yearly ambitions of racing

You can frame what I’m about to say if you want andy…

I agree with you!

(ish…)

😄

The 4-6 weeks of training for Tenerife might be enough to ride with the group you ride with. But well, these things are all relative aren’t they.

For people trying to create their own training plan there’s probably normally a balance. Or at least the people with varied goals might think about the balance. If your end goal is to just to race the wrtl. Or if you just aim to ride endurance. Then things are really quite straight forward. But maybe with multiple aims the discussion but less clear cut and training plans more nuanced.

Edit:

I don’t know… I know I’ve been found out / get like I was bluffing it a bit last summer and probably the one before. And then I just start thinking about how the ZRL races pan out for the majority in terms of rest bud effort. And I know I need to push more I guess.

 

[bobinski]

Train to what your goals are. If ZRL is your primary thing, lots of races, some Z2, lots of HIT.

Gives you great conditioning

If your into endurance, climbing mountains, tailor more to endurance Z2 multi hour rides with a bit of HIT.

I think the vast majority us could quite easily switch between the two ends of the fitness spectrum without too much additional training.

Eg If I were to want to go to Tenerife for a week's mountain riding, 4-6 weeks of endurance rides would see me cope quite easily. Similarly improving ZRL performance 4-6 weeks of targeted HIT work.

Peaking to absolute performance, that takes a fair bit more time at your chosen discipline.

I don't see hardly anyone being that focused or driven - probably Martin the exception with his yearly ambitions of racing

Blimey, only 6-8 weeks of endurance training it is then before my Raid Pyrenees! Watch out Tommy and Lee!

 

[CXRAndy]

Blimey, only 6-8 weeks of endurance training it is then before my Raid Pyrenees! Watch out Tommy and Lee!

No I wouldn't be beating any of you up a mountain, that's for sure.

I'm reasonably fit at the moment, could easily alter riding to endurance style-

if I had the inclination.

Blimey, only 6-8 weeks of endurance training it is then before my Raid Pyrenees! Watch out Tommy and Lee!

 

[CXRAndy]

Pyrenees Raid, is about 2600 metres per day, so one climb of MT Teide per day

 

[alex_cycles]

No I wouldn't be beating any of you up a mountain, that's for sure.

I'm reasonably fit at the moment, could easily alter riding to endurance style-

if I had the inclination.

I think that's an important key here, isn't it?
Your starting point. If you haven't had a long "off-season" break, or injury/illness break, you might be starting from a higher point than previously?

 

[<Tommy>]

Pyrenees Raid, is about 2600 metres per day, so one climb of MT Teide per day

You never did say what you ordered for lunch that day you stopped half way up alp d’huez for a meal.

 

[<Tommy>]

Blimey, only 6-8 weeks of endurance training it is then before my Raid Pyrenees! Watch out Tommy and Lee!

Well to be fair to Andy (again, not something you hear every day is it!). I do think he’s right in the sense that you could probably do that. But then it’s a question of what you expect out of it. I think different groups have different expectations of how fast or how long they want to go. I do remember from andy’s mountain trips lots of photos of slap up group meals and short days. Which is obv just personal preference. But for us I guess we are really always trying to push that bit further and faster. So it’ll take a fair bit more conditioning.

But yeah, the great thing or one of the things I always enjoy, is seeing all sorts of different people cycling up the hills. Some fast, some slow. Some young, some not so young! Steele, carbon, everything in between. But everyone with the same target of getting to the top. That never gets old does it!

 

[bobinski]

Well to be fair to Andy (again, not something you hear every day is it!). I do think he’s right in the sense that you could probably do that. But then it’s a question of what you expect out of it. I think different groups have different expectations of how fast or how long they want to go. I do remember from andy’s mountain trips lots of photos of slap up group meals and short days. Which is obv just personal preference. But for us I guess we are really always trying to push that bit further and faster. So it’ll take a fair bit more conditioning.

But yeah, the great thing or one of the things I always enjoy, is seeing all sorts of different people cycling up the hills. Some fast, some slow. Some young, some not so young! Steele, carbon, everything in between. But everyone with the same target of getting to the top. That never gets old does it!

You are going soft mate

 

[Randyberlin]

That’s some volume Alex, congrats! 👌

I have a slightly different perspective. I think it’s from the racing on bkool in the leagues we did. Basically a very nice chap called Bill, set up a league each month. And he picked a variety of races. Some lumpy, some flat. Sometimes a really big climb. So I sort of just did what was put in from of me. I think back then if I could have chosen like you can today, I would have likely more often than not chosen flatter races as I was nearly 90kg when I started on the turbo. But it didn’t really occur to me what my preference was to be honest. I don’t recall it that way anyway but maybe I’m wrong.

I think now because there is so much more choice it’s very easy to stick to what you like best or are best at. So I totally get that.

Regarding your level of volume on zwift, has that effected the amount of volume you put out in the real world?

@Peter Salt, I think what ZRL doesn’t offer you is proper endurance. But that can be said for most racing on zwift not specifically ZRL. I think maybe ZRL is just more to the extreme end than say a longer race with more constant power. I only say that as someone who then takes their winter racing and endurance rides and tries to take them out in the summer to do endurance rides up mountains. Doing ZRL will get you better at doing ZRL. No doubt about that I don’t think. But with regards to the debate about training, goals etc. I think the conclusion I’m drawing is that my training needs to be a lot more rounded to fulfil my requirements for general riding. Hope that makes sense…

We still do. And I have a spare subscription for anybody who wants to come back for a test. Nobody is using a bkool trainer anymore and it uses real power now.