Zwift Chat

[<Tommy>]

You mean FTS? I think it's just something that was easy to do in Zwift and makes it different from real-world races. Also - yeah - tossing a bone to people who can sprint/climb but can't hold onto the front pack. Can't see a problem with it, really. I mean they have lots of different competitions in the Grand Tours, so why not? Although it has to be said, in our recent ZRL C races most of the FTS points are going to the same people in the same order as FAL anyway. But that hasn't always been the case.

I kind of accept it. Like lee I think I would prefer races without it. Just because it kind of changes the whole dynamic of a race since they bought it in and a preferred it before that. In grand tours the stages are so long I don’t feel like one thing effects the other so much.

But I agree with you too really. I guess in the end that’s a distinction between real world and computer game racing. And it keeps everyone involved. It would be nice if there were some series’ that didn’t have it though. It seems like every series has primes so you don’t really have the choice some might think you have.

@Girafitti as a general rule I think the more Belgium’s in a team the better! 👍😄

 

[bridgy]

As I understand it, stage 1 is an ITT (no drafting) and as for all races in the Flamme Rouge series the bike frame is enforced, but you can choose your preferred wheelset. So as we have a choice of wheelset you might want to read this - https://zwiftinsider.com/bologna-setup/

(If you can't be bothered to read it, most aero wheelset you can get wins the day Oh, and pacing's important too - go harder on the climb than on the flat)

I'm not 100% sure but I'm assuming it'll just be a mass start but with no drafting. Either way, the 1km neutral zone they have at the start of points races doesn't apply in the ITT.

Good luck everyone - I'm planning to do it at 19.30 tomorrow (18.30 UTC) so see you there if you're doing the same timeslot. If you're going earlier, let us know how it goes!

 

[bridgy]

I kind of accept it. Like lee I think I would prefer races without it. Just because it kind of changes the whole dynamic of a race since they bought it in and a preferred it before that. In grand tours the stages are so long I don’t feel like one thing effects the other so much.

But I agree with you too really. I guess in the end that’s a distinction between real world and computer game racing. And it keeps everyone involved. It would be nice if there were some series’ that didn’t have it though. It seems like every series has primes so you don’t really have the choice some might think you have.

@Girafitti as a general rule I think the more Belgium’s in a team the better! 👍😄

The segments competition in ZRL races is starting to grow on me! So many "standard" races now follow the same old format of: start hard, settle down, sit in the pack, bit of a push if there's a hill, sit in the draft, sprint finish. At least the segments spices that up a bit and rewards riders with different strengths within your team. Also this last season I enjoyed the use of some new tactics on the segments which can be really rewarding if you get it right - eg on that New Yourk course I (accidentally!) worked out exactly where to attack the sprint segment and got a couple of FALs during the race by timing it just right (very rare for me to get FAL on a sprint!); and in the last race we got those FTS points by dropping off the back of the pack as a team and sprinting back on as the segment started. In short, it made it more fun and interesting to race. The one thing I don't like is how ZRL weights the points - that could definitely be improved IMO.

 

[Legs]

My turbo bike has started creaking and clicking like a ba$tard when I put even a modest amount of power through the pedals. If I can find my crank puller I'll try regreasing the bottom bracket spindle - failing that working, it's going to mean splashing out a whole £14 on a new UN300 s/t bottom bracket (I put up the current one in in 2005, so it's probably still got another decade or two lifespan!)

So I whipped the cranks and BB off and got rid of all the crud that had accumulated on the threads and BB spindles, thoroughly regreased and tightened, took it for a little sprackle up the Watopia Wall, and it seems to be running a lot better. Another few thousand miles left in that cartridge BB, methinks!

 

[Peter Salt]

I kind of accept it. Like lee I think I would prefer races without it. Just because it kind of changes the whole dynamic of a race since they bought it in and a preferred it before that. In grand tours the stages are so long I don’t feel like one thing effects the other so much.

But I agree with you too really. I guess in the end that’s a distinction between real world and computer game racing. And it keeps everyone involved. It would be nice if there were some series’ that didn’t have it though. It seems like every series has primes so you don’t really have the choice some might think you have.

@Girafitti as a general rule I think the more Belgium’s in a team the better! 👍😄

The segments competition in ZRL races is starting to grow on me! So many "standard" races now follow the same old format of: start hard, settle down, sit in the pack, bit of a push if there's a hill, sit in the draft, sprint finish. At least the segments spices that up a bit and rewards riders with different strengths within your team. Also this last season I enjoyed the use of some new tactics on the segments which can be really rewarding if you get it right - eg on that New Yourk course I (accidentally!) worked out exactly where to attack the sprint segment and got a couple of FALs during the race by timing it just right (very rare for me to get FAL on a sprint!); and in the last race we got those FTS points by dropping off the back of the pack as a team and sprinting back on as the segment started. In short, it made it more fun and interesting to race. The one thing I don't like is how ZRL weights the points - that could definitely be improved IMO.

I like the segments. But that maybe because they fit my riding style or rider archetype as some call it. Right now in B I lack the endurance to be able to really contest the FTS/FAL - keeping in the pack costs just a bit too much and by the time a suitable segment comes along the tank is already half empty. But in C, where I was at cat edge it was a different story - tank was full and I could smash it. As Bridgy says, it keeps the races entertaining.

I imagine it's the opposite for pure endurance riders - with not much sprint and punch. It makes the finishing positions less relevant.

New York, mentioned by Bridgy, is a good example. I finished 40th but collected some single-digit segment points which at the end of the day meant I scored better then folks in 20-25th spot that got nothing along the way. Maybe it's fair, maybe it's not - it is what it is.

 

[Whorty]

I've got a old man COVID booster in 30 mins, so will be assessing reaction.

If first race is a TT I will be missing it. When is first race?

Just had mine .... I'm currently in Costa treating myself to a mocha and a tiffin. I hate needles!

 

[berty bassett]

I don’t do much racing on Zwift and I can see how fastest sprint rather than first across line includes more people and opens racing that must be good but also I guess it leaves the system open for abuse for people to do little to no work majority of a race , blast for 15 seconds and claim a glorious victory
If enough people do that then I bet it’s an exciting 15 seconds but will lead to people having artificially low av w/kg when all the data would show massive 15sec , 1 min and poss 5min power
I would think that someone with a huge 5min power should be able to tone it down and tweak to a 20min very good power but we are all different I guess
I know I couldn’t keep my measily 5min power up for 20 mins , but tone it down a bit and I can go a bit further

 

[JuhaL]

View attachment 665337 So I whipped the cranks and BB off and got rid of all the crud that had accumulated on the threads and BB spindles, thoroughly regreased and tightened, took it for a little sprackle up the Watopia Wall, and it seems to be running a lot better. Another few thousand miles left in that cartridge BB, methinks!

I can see the show room shine is clearly missing, it was a about the time remove the bb and clean the whole thing. Good to remember when you do indoor training and you sweating a lot sweat will easily found a way to bottom bracket. With a bad luck bsa type bb can oxidize and become welded to frame because of that. Good that you manage to remove it.

 

[Legs]

Definitely, @JuhaL ! I think a fair bit of the crud is from mud and road salt when it was used and abused as an outdoor bike.

 

[berty bassett]

Missing show room shine 😁

 

[Legs]

Missing show room shine 😁

Yep, there’s no need for Juha’s euphemism, really - the bike’s an absolute shoot-tip. One of the bottle bosses on the downtube broke off so I put the reflective tape on there to seal it over as much as to be seen!

 

[bridgy]

I don’t do much racing on Zwift and I can see how fastest sprint rather than first across line includes more people and opens racing that must be good but also I guess it leaves the system open for abuse for people to do little to no work majority of a race , blast for 15 seconds and claim a glorious victory
If enough people do that then I bet it’s an exciting 15 seconds but will lead to people having artificially low av w/kg when all the data would show massive 15sec , 1 min and poss 5min power
I would think that someone with a huge 5min power should be able to tone it down and tweak to a 20min very good power but we are all different I guess
I know I couldn’t keep my measily 5min power up for 20 mins , but tone it down a bit and I can go a bit further

That's where it comes down to how points are allocated for segments really isn't it? In reality though, to get decent FTS points in a sprint you do at the very least need to be able to stick with the front group to have a chance at that because the strongest riders overall are also always some of the strongest riders on every type of segement so FTS (as well as FAL) usually comes form the lead group. Climbs can be different - we had a guy pootle round the whole course but smash a 10 minute climb then finish last (by minutes) but with 20 FTS points in the bag in a ZRL race once - but again that could be rectified by tweaking the points distribution a bit.

In reality it is rare these days for someone to just attack one short sprint the whole race and nothing else - to be good enough to score enough points in that one sprint to make it worthwhile going for, you'll be good enough to do more than that in the race so why not do that? (and the top 10 at the finish ALWAYS score well in all the segments too)

With regards to low 20 min power and huge 1-5 min power - yes that's exactly the point with regards the flaws in the ZP category system. As I've said before MOST races don't require big 20 min power at all. I actually think this issue is getting more pronounced because people are definitely racing smarter than ever before (anyone else noticed that the starts are way less intense than they used to be?)

Some race organisers are finally starting to address this - Flamme Rouge for example using NP rather than 20 minute average, and obviously that ranking based system I linked to the other day.

 

[CXRAndy]

I don’t do much racing on Zwift and I can see how fastest sprint rather than first across line includes more people and opens racing that must be good but also I guess it leaves the system open for abuse for people to do little to no work majority of a race , blast for 15 seconds and claim a glorious victory
If enough people do that then I bet it’s an exciting 15 seconds but will lead to people having artificially low av w/kg when all the data would show massive 15sec , 1 min and poss 5min power
I would think that someone with a huge 5min power should be able to tone it down and tweak to a 20min very good power but we are all different I guess
I know I couldn’t keep my measily 5min power up for 20 mins , but tone it down a bit and I can go a bit further

Watch out Berty, there are some uber powerful 2-5 mins C cats, capable of long anaerobic levels of power

 

[alex_cycles]

With regards to low 20 min power and huge 1-5 min power - yes that's exactly the point with regards the flaws in the ZP category system. As I've said before MOST races don't require big 20 min power at all. I actually think this issue is getting more pronounced because people are definitely racing smarter than ever before (anyone else noticed that the starts are way less intense than they used to be?)

Yes actually I have. I thought I was getting better
But seriously, yes don't need to push 500W to not get dropped at the start now. 300 is usually enough for the first 15-30s then it settles down.

Some race organisers are finally starting to address this - Flamme Rouge for example using NP rather than 20 minute average, and obviously that ranking based system I linked to the other day.

Also loving their idea of the neutralised rolling start.

 

[CXRAndy]

But seriously, yes don't need to push 500W to not get dropped at the start now. 300 is usually enough for the first 15-30s then it settles down.

You lucky so&so

500-600W to start and in the ZRL can be 400W for nearly a minute.