Zwift Chat

[Whorty]

So unless I’m reading what you’re saying wrong Steve , that aspect is the same as it is now. In the sense that boundary’s will be defined, and then used to place you.

So it doesn’t matter if they rearrange the boundary’s so now mid to high C is racing with mid to low B for example. All that means is that they’re changing the imaginary boundary line to a different position. That’s the equivalent to a single catergory now. Just with a different perimeter?

If they’re now using more detailed metrics to define ‘athlete’ ranking then that’s great though. The sooner the push a new system through the better!

So yes, still 'cats' but defined in a different way. Instead of the flawed 20 minute power, it's result/rank driven which i think most people agree is more sensible.

I think anything that stops people from self selecting their cat pen has to be better than what we have now.

 

[steverob]

The only metric being used is your ranking, which is based on your results - the only time you will be ranked based on your power is if you don't have any recent results to be ranked by.

And the boundaries can (theoretically) be changed from race to race.

 

[<Tommy>]

I think anything that stops people from self selecting their cat pen has to be better than what we have now.

Agreed 👍

 

[<Tommy>]

The only metric being used is your ranking, which is based on your results - the only time you will be ranked based on your power is if you don't have any recent results to be ranked by.

And the boundaries can (theoretically) be changed from race to race.

Yeah I don’t have a problem with cat boundaries at all. It’s just a imaginary line. I’m lucky in the sense that the position of the A/B line suits me. If another line is drawn then again that would dictate my position. Maybe I end up further forward or further back. But if they can create a point / rank system that people can’t ‘game’ then it’s a level playing field in that regard at least.

 

[Whorty]

Agreed 👍


View attachment 665170

The 'Tiny' Saturday races ... great for boosting your ranking ... until you realise Zwift might start using ranking, and you may have made a big mistake in boosting your ranking

Edit: Should probably add, the ranking points in Zwift at the moment seems flawed too. The fact that I can have a higher 'rank' point than B riders who would destroy me in a race is a bit strange. But it's how the current numbers work ... I don't think anyone in C should be able to have higher ranking points than someone in B, for example, and yet there are some C riders who are the the 100's

Edit 2: I blame @alex_cycles for convincing me to use these Tiny races to boost rank points to get CC a higher position in C teams

 

[alex_cycles]

The 'Tiny' Saturday races ... great for boosting your ranking ... until you realise Zwift might start using ranking, and you may have made a big mistake in boosting your ranking

Edit: Should probably add, the ranking points in Zwift at the moment seems flawed too. The fact that I can have a higher 'rank' point than B riders who would destroy me in a race is a bit strange. But it's how the current numbers work ... I don't think anyone in C should be able to have higher ranking points than someone in B, for example, and yet there are some C riders who are the the 100's

Only if you do all four (as of last week).
They caused a bit of a shitstorm last week DQing everyone who didn't do all 4. Some people who didn't read the rules in advance were VERY upset.
Nice thing about those races is they're lovely and short and rather high quality. Hence you can get four lots of ZP ranking points in an hour if you're prepared to do essentially four long VO2max intervals

 

[alex_cycles]

The 'Tiny' Saturday races ... great for boosting your ranking ... until you realise Zwift might start using ranking, and you may have made a big mistake in boosting your ranking

Edit: Should probably add, the ranking points in Zwift at the moment seems flawed too. The fact that I can have a higher 'rank' point than B riders who would destroy me in a race is a bit strange. But it's how the current numbers work ... I don't think anyone in C should be able to have higher ranking points than someone in B, for example, and yet there are some C riders who are the the 100's

Yeah but a results based system will always favour those who race a lot and get good results. The point is the results should define your category so that couldn't happen.
With the current system, if you deliberately choose races you are good at to try and boost your ranking that's what's going to happen. (I would never do such a thing, which is why I have never raced a micro mountain massif sub-5-minute sprint climb and won it ).

I think it's hilarious and also rather encouraging that when you rank our ZRL race lineups by ZP ranking we now have 2 riders in the top 10. I do it purely for the intimidation factor. "He's sub-300! He MUST be good!" Which can't hurt when you're chugging up Titans Grove and someone's deciding whether to try to go with you or not.
We've also both found that the VO2 workouts are great training for ZRL. Carl is now top 40 on ZP in Cat-C by the way. I'm a mere 224ish, but the team is ranked 40th in C.

Edit 2: I blame @alex_cycles for convincing me to use these Tiny races to boost rank points to get CC a higher position in C teams

I accept cash/credit cards/bank transfer/PayPal

 

[<Tommy>]

Edit: Should probably add, the ranking points in Zwift at the moment seems flawed too. The fact that I can have a higher 'rank' point than B riders who would destroy me in a race is a bit strange. But it's how the current numbers work ... I don't think anyone in C should be able to have higher ranking points than someone in B, for example, and yet there are some C riders who are the the 100's

To be fair I’ve just had a look on ZP power and you have some stats a lot of B cat racers would like to have. Up to and including 5 min power your stats are very similar / better than mine at the moment!

I know you’re a little sensitive about the whole sandbagger thing mate, but I feel like an impromptu game of ‘Where’s Wally Gimpy’ might be in order!

 

[Peter Salt]

To be fair I’ve just had a look on ZP power and you have some stats a lot of B cat racers would like to have. Up to and including 5 min power your stats are very similar / better than mine at the moment!

I know you’re a little sensitive about the whole sandbagger thing mate, but I feel like an impromptu game of ‘Where’s Wally Gimpy’ might be in order!

It's an interesting consideration. Someone's 5-min, or 2-min power might be off the chart, but what if that was achieved as part of a race where the whole event took 5 or 2 minutes?

 

[alex_cycles]

It's an interesting consideration. Someone's 5-min, or 2-min power might be off the chart, but what if that was achieved as part of a race where the whole event took 5 or 2 minutes?

One of the reasons I think if you're going to use metrics like that, they should fit the race profile. I remember suggesting it before, but you said it would be boring.

Interesting to see how it works on the Flamme Rouge with normalized power.

 

[Girafitti]

Agreed 👍


View attachment 665170

If they could make it that higher categories also bag more points, I can see this system working. If you like winning races you get upgraded to a more difficult category. If you like ranking, you will get a better fitness chasing those Points.

Ofcourse winning a race is fun but I would like to see my name on top of that list more I think. I'm coming for you Bridgy.

 

[Whorty]

Only if you do all four (as of last week).
They caused a bit of a shitstorm last week DQing everyone who didn't do all 4. Some people who didn't read the rules in advance were VERY upset.
Nice thing about those races is they're lovely and short and rather high quality. Hence you can get four lots of ZP ranking points in an hour if you're prepared to do essentially four long VO2max intervals

I love them, great training too for normal races ... and totally exhausted by the end! Actually, totally farked after race 3, not even sure how I managed to turn the pedals for race 4

 

[Whorty]

Carl is now top 40 on ZP in Cat-C by the way. I'm a mere 224ish, but the team is ranked 40th in C.
I accept cash/credit cards/bank transfer/PayPal

Top 40? I must try harder

 

[alex_cycles]

To be fair I’ve just had a look on ZP power and you have some stats a lot of B cat racers would like to have. Up to and including 5 min power your stats are very similar / better than mine at the moment!

I know you’re a little sensitive about the whole sandbagger thing mate, but I feel like an impromptu game of ‘Where’s Wally Gimpy’ might be in order!

If you wanna play "where's Gimpy?" take a look at this guy who took gold for BZR Rhinos in our ZRL race last night...
https://zwiftpower.com/profile.php?z=266564

Pretty good, you might think. Then look at the race he did before that. Exactly the same race for another BZR team at 1800 and took bronze.

IMNSVHO anyone who can do that - race two decent-length races and podium back-to-back like that is a tragic gimp of titan's grove proportions. If that's what it takes to not quite beat us, then so be it

 

[Whorty]

To be fair I’ve just had a look on ZP power and you have some stats a lot of B cat racers would like to have. Up to and including 5 min power your stats are very similar / better than mine at the moment!

I know you’re a little sensitive about the whole sandbagger thing mate, but I feel like an impromptu game of ‘Where’s Wally Gimpy’ might be in order!

I work on my 1-5 minute power ..... think of me as the Usain Bolt of the team when others are the Mo Farah ... same sport, different game

If all races were on flat courses, lasting 10 minutes, then yeah I'm sure I'd be in B cat

In fact, in our little CC race last year on the pan flat Feugo, I won (yes, I know technically the video shows Michael beating me in the sprint ) ... so I'm not surprised my 1-5 minute power compares well with most of the rest of the CC teams, both B and C.