Zwift Chat

[steverob]

Just done a bit of analysis. For the distance of the meetup (which annoyingly - but typically for Zwift - doesn't quite cover the Strava segment for Greatest London Flat!), Steve went 28 seconds slower than his ZRL TTT time, and I went 8 seconds faster. So the time gap in the ZRL was 5:12, and in the meetup it was 5:48. So if Joffey's not in the team (he went 2 minutes quicker than the rest of Team CCC) and with the exception of him it is pretty similar riders as last night I would suggest a gap from Team 23 to Team CCC of about 5 minutes. I don't know if Whorty rides with CCC how much difference that's likely to make - we'll have to rely on Team CCC to advise on that I think...

I think I could have gone a little bit faster in those last two miles after we were overtaken, but I was monitoring Joffey's finish for the video and advising on time gaps, so wasn't pedalling quite as hard as I could. Having said that, my legs were screaming at me to stop from pretty much as soon as we got past the Tower of London, so even at best I think I might have come in 15-20 seconds down on my TTT time.

The only TTT that Whorty has done with us was the lumpy New York one, which doesn't really help with guessing at form, as on that ride because of our huge range of abilities and weights, we* all went up the KOM at different paces and re-grouped after the descent - it was almost impossible to stay together, so it was faster for the team to tackle it as individuals.

I think his pace isn't far off Joffey's overall but it's more based on "surge and recover" tactics than the constant wattage engine that Joffey provides. Now probably in #23 and #68 that skillset would be ideal, but in CCC we tend not to do official "turns" and rather choose to just blob up and keep the overall pace high with a constant churn of riders as that suits us better.

* - I say we; note that I played my joker that week and chose to DS!

 

[bridgy]

Looks like @Girafitti @Brendan Parker and @straas might be able to make the slightly later time so alongside me @Ketty @bobinski and who knows who else we should be even stronger this time around. @Brusgaard of course welcome again if you fancy it?

So most likely keep the gap from Team 23 to Team 68 the same as last night?

 

[Legs]

Looks like @Girafitti @Brendan Parker and @straas might be able to make the slightly later time so alongside me @Ketty @bobinski and who knows who else we should be even stronger this time around. @Brusgaard of course welcome again if you fancy it?

And @Legs too!

 

[mjd1988]

So most likely keep the gap from Team 23 to Team 68 the same as last night?

I think so. I mean I do wonder if it's fair even having a gap as we managed to hold on when you guys overtook but it does add to the drama to have two separate teams! We haven't been analysed yet but didn't feel like we were holding back too much for the first part.

 

[steverob]

I think the key question is are we keeping it Hare & Hounds style where it's first place only that counts (so Joffey Mk.2 tactics are still in play) or making it more like a TTT where its 3rd across line for the winning time, as that would affect the time gaps the most.

For CCC, even with Joffey, a TTT would need us to have at least a 4:30 gap to be competitive. Whereas based on last night, for an H&H we should only get 2:45, maybe even down to 2:30 if we had Whorty and Lee available too (he also had to miss out at last minute).
If Joffey was in #68 though, we'd need well over 5 mins for TTT-style and maybe somewhere around 4:15 for an H&H (maybe even higher - if we did send someone off the front it would have to be a lot closer to the finish).

 

[bridgy]

I was bar the schoolboy error on the escalator. The main thing was i enjoyed it and we all know how important that is. Now, if i can get those other 30w back i will be even happier.

Bob, what exactly is this "escalator trick" I keep reading about? Can you explain it in layman's terms?

 

[bridgy]

I think the key question is are we keeping it Hare & Hounds style where it's first place only that counts (so Joffey Mk.2 tactics are still in play) or making it more like a TTT where its 3rd across line for the winning time, as that would affect the time gaps the most.

For CCC, even with Joffey, a TTT would need us to have at least a 4:30 gap to be competitive. Whereas based on last night, for an H&H we should only get 2:45, maybe even down to 2:30 if we had Whorty and Lee available too (he also had to miss out at last minute).
If Joffey was in #68 though, we'd need well over 5 mins for TTT-style and maybe somewhere around 4:15 for an H&H (maybe even higher - if we did send someone off the front it would have to be a lot closer to the finish).

I think it's proposed we do a re-run in the same format next Tuesday. Might mix it up with different race formats after that

 

[Spartak]

OT...... GCN app showing both Tirreno Adriatica & Paris Nice at the moment, should be able to catch the finish of both.

 

[bobinski]

Bob, what exactly is this "escalator trick" I keep reading about? Can you explain it in layman's terms?

You are asking the person who can't do it ?

As you turn left to the escalator drop down your gears and spin at 120 cadence on low power. I managed it 2 in i think 5 goes last saturday. Everyone who could do it breezed up and pulled away at the top. If you get it wrong you just end up spinning and moving slowly-like last night Great to have in th epocket in a race but takes practice.
Scott Mcveigh from zsunr is setting up a training ride to teach how to do it and i can let you know when.

 

[Joffey]

OT...... GCN app showing both Tirreno Adriatica & Paris Nice at the moment, should be able to catch the finish of both.

Paris-Nice shaping up for a good finish already!

 

[Whorty]

I think the key question is are we keeping it Hare & Hounds style where it's first place only that counts (so Joffey Mk.2 tactics are still in play) or making it more like a TTT where its 3rd across line for the winning time, as that would affect the time gaps the most.

For CCC, even with Joffey, a TTT would need us to have at least a 4:30 gap to be competitive. Whereas based on last night, for an H&H we should only get 2:45, maybe even down to 2:30 if we had Whorty and Lee available too (he also had to miss out at last minute).
If Joffey was in #68 though, we'd need well over 5 mins for TTT-style and maybe somewhere around 4:15 for an H&H (maybe even higher - if we did send someone off the front it would have to be a lot closer to the finish).

I'd tend to agree. With Joffey in CCC (which I still think he should be as he is CCC team captain and it doesn't seem right to take the captain out of the team) then knock off the time that Joffey won by.

If Joffey goes to #68 that makes that team so much stronger, and CCC so much weaker as we lose our engine so we would need something closer to 5 mins - to compensate for us being slower and Joffey now chasing us.

But as i said earlier, any lead for CCC that is too short just means my tactic will be to conserve my energy until the inevitable catch as there is no way I can do a Joffey and do a lone attack so I wouldn't even try.

 

[mjd1988]

How are team 23 set? At the minute 68 look a bit bigger so you have to imagine if we come together we will eat into CCCs advantage quicker?

 

[Whorty]

Seems strange that the plan to beat CCC is to remove our best (C cat) rider, rather than the other 2 teams to try and work out a tactic that actually beats CCC and get revenge.

Surely the point of the handicaps is to keep the teams the same each race, but tweak the time so that we have as many finish together as possible. @Joffey was only 30 seconds/500 metres up the road, can #23 and #68 just work a little harder next time

Interesting indeed

 

[<Tommy>]

Seems strange that the plan to beat CCC is to remove our best (C cat) rider, rather than the other 2 teams to try and work out a tactic that actually beats CCC and get revenge.

Surely the point of the handicaps is to keep the teams the same each race, but tweak the time so that we have as many finish together as possible. @Joffey was only 30 seconds/500 metres up the road, can #23 and #68 just work a little harder next time

Interesting indeed

It’s funny I think we were thinking the complete opposite! By putting Joffey in #68 (which seems closer to his ability), it makes it easier to work out a handicap for ccc as the spectrum of ability in the team isn’t so wide.

 

[Aleman]

It’s funny I think we were thinking the complete opposite! By putting Joffey in #68 (which seems closer to his ability)

And yet as his W/Kg is under the 3.2 Limit for CAT B (Possibly not for much longer ) then CCC IS where he can reside quite legitimately. ... Of course if he wants to ride "Up Category" then that is up to him