Zwift Chat

[bridgy]

All this talk of the saw tooth effect has me a little worried, when I found out how to have the power graph showing on the screen as you ride, on the first time I used it when I rode TdZ stage 6 my first thoughts was it looked like a saw blade, but I am all Bluetooth with the Apple TV ,have I anything to be worried about

Looking at your stage 6 ride on Strava your power graph is very spiky, but the peaks and troughs are very close together and uneven. I would say that someone blatantly using this technique would show as a bit more spaced and regular sized out peaks and troughs as they power up then rest over and over again. Everyone's power goes up and down a bit as you control your speed to stay in a group and react to gradient changest etc - plus the signal from the trainer isn't always instant and smooth. I've seen the graph for people I know are doing this and it's not really like yours.

You'll know if you're doing it - spin up to high power, rest briefly until the power drops, spin it back up and repeat. As opposed to just riding more naturally.

 

[Edwardoka]

Indoor training provides me with an easy way out ;(

There was nothing easy about that. 1:04:04, average HR 181, 1.93W/kg. 574/610 on Zwift Companion.
I don't even have any excuses, had a good warmup, fast start, in a fast group. Woeful performance.
I got beaten by someone on a handbike. Bravo, thought I. I bet he's got arms like Schwarzenegger.

HR spiked several times, I had to physically stop on the second climb of lap 2 just to get it below 180; twiddling a small gear did nothing.

Due to being chased down by a heavily pregnant lady who smashed my KOM time, my fragile masculinity kicked in and I rode far harder than was sensible, ignoring all the warning signs that had forced me to stop earlier.

Not sure unlocking the TdZ jersey or keeping clear of a pregnant lady were worth killing myself over.

 

[JuhaL]

Glad its over now, back to something structured

Same plan with me. Today i do something easier on Zwift like TWENTY20 Road To Tokyo Ride and next week i will continue with Trainerroad.

 

[bridgy]

There was nothing easy about that. 1:04:04, average HR 181, 1.93W/kg. 574/610 on Zwift Companion.
I don't even have any excuses, had a good warmup, fast start, in a fast group. Woeful performance.
I got beaten by someone on a handbike. Bravo, thought I. I bet he's got arms like Schwarzenegger.

HR spiked several times, I had to physically stop on the second climb of lap 2 just to get it below 180; twiddling a small gear did nothing.

Due to being chased down by a heavily pregnant lady who smashed my KOM time, my fragile masculinity kicked in and I rode far harder than was sensible, ignoring all the warning signs that had forced me to stop earlier.

Not sure unlocking the TdZ jersey or keeping clear of a pregnant lady were worth killing myself over.

Just out of interest, how did you know she was pregnant?!

 

[Edwardoka]

Just out of interest, how did you know she was pregnant?!

Like the handbike guy, her display name said so. Then again, going by my physique I'd probably qualify as more heavily pregnant

 

[theboxers]

Aren't ebikes a giggle. Im thinking of converting my Kona MTB to a S Pedelec. Going through the process of registering it with the DVLA for a 28 mph commuter.

I'm trying to convince my eldest two kids to get their CBT so they can use these faster ebikes. I can see when vehicles are restricted from cities and town(already begun) that longer commuting for people with low effort ebikes will boom in popularity.

I know a few office workers who use an ebike , so not to get hot/ sweaty on their commute.

They are fun. I (try to) limit myself to just climbing. If it's flat enough for me to do 15mph I get no assistance (Limit override )

Although currently even the ebike doesn't help with the leg issue. No push no assistance .

 

[Whorty]

All this talk of the saw tooth effect has me a little worried, when I found out how to have the power graph showing on the screen as you ride, on the first time I used it when I rode TdZ stage 6 my first thoughts was it looked like a saw blade, but I am all Bluetooth with the Apple TV ,have I anything to be worried about

I think the clearest graph of this 'technique' is the cadence .... the rider spins up (so you see a spike in cadence) then they stop pedaling (cadence drops to 0) - the cadence graph is a very clear sawtooth. As Paul says, our power will fluctuate as we react to other riders, and even more so on a rolling course like Harrogate.

 

[Whorty]

There was nothing easy about that. 1:04:04, average HR 181, 1.93W/kg. 574/610 on Zwift Companion.
I don't even have any excuses, had a good warmup, fast start, in a fast group. Woeful performance.
I got beaten by someone on a handbike. Bravo, thought I. I bet he's got arms like Schwarzenegger.

HR spiked several times, I had to physically stop on the second climb of lap 2 just to get it below 180; twiddling a small gear did nothing.

Due to being chased down by a heavily pregnant lady who smashed my KOM time, my fragile masculinity kicked in and I rode far harder than was sensible, ignoring all the warning signs that had forced me to stop earlier.

Not sure unlocking the TdZ jersey or keeping clear of a pregnant lady were worth killing myself over.

What trainer do you have? If a smart trainer then set the realism to (say) 20%, this will allow you to control your power output more and less chance of blowing up. 20% is quite a common setting in races as it reduces the need to change gear as often, allows a smoother cadence and you are less likely to suffer as much on the hills

 

[bridgy]

Like the handbike guy, her display name said so. Then again, going by my physique I'd probably qualify as more heavily pregnant

That's quite funny that she added the fact she's pregnant to her name! I can think of no other reason than to shame any riders she passes. I hope she's regularly updating her weight mind

 

[bobinski]

I don’t know. I guess not though. I was in a race a few months back when bob made rapid gains on me and Lars. The whole time he was gaining I could see his power going from 0 w/kg to 4+w/kg. He eventually caught us.

For the record I’m not for a moment suggesting bob was doing it on purpose. I trust him implicitly and I spoke to him about it after the race wheee he just explained he was peeling in bursts because it was all he could muster. But I did wonder if there was an inadvertent advantage in it. I asked the question on zwift power but I didn’t get a response.

Tommy, course I would do anything to try and beat you 👍😁 I remember chasing down every rider in front of me to get a draft ( probably sticky?) Recover, put on power to get out the sticky, rinse and repeat. They tended to be long efforts though. Perhaps I did get a benefit?

On a closed FB group some have been suggesting best use is 5-10s sprints and stop and then back on again. Any more than that and benefit reduces which is why the sawtooth is so visible. Some have said that on slow to react turbo’s eg.Neo the apparent boost is negated by effort to get turbo up to sprint power. Others have said fly wheel based turbo’s eg. Anything other than Neo, reactvto power input quicker and hold the power longer than a NEO after you ease off the watts but it’s not so visible unless you look for it. I don’t know- in fact I am not sure anyone really does know for sure and what differences there are between different trainers /power meters when it comes to the power on/off. I don’t know if fact it is rarely talked about reflects a desire not to broadcast the “cheat” or because no one really understands what is happening and the variables. But if they did wouldn’t the answer be for everyone to race over BT? Yet no one seems to be suggesting it?

That reminds me there was a top rider last year who accused of using it but he YT all his rides and he always appeared to be pedalling albeit cadence dropped.

 

[Joffey]

All this talk of cheating eh? Tut tut tut...

We'll I'm still full of cold so no racing for me for a few days. On the upside the snot and mucus has reduced my appetite and as such my weight has dropped from 108kg to 68kg...

Might have to do all the TdZ stages again on catch up week!

 

[Edwardoka]

What trainer do you have? If a smart trainer then set the realism to (say) 20%, this will allow you to control your power output more and less chance of blowing up. 20% is quite a common setting in races as it reduces the need to change gear as often, allows a smoother cadence and you are less likely to suffer as much on the hills

An unsupported Tacx dumb trainer and no power meter, hence not joining the league (would be unfair).

I didn't stop because I blew up on a climb, I could have kept pedalling but my HR spiked too high because of a surge I put in about 30 seconds prior, to carry some speed into the climb. When I get delayed HR spikes I start to feel shonky (not lactic acid) and twiddling a small gear while focusing on my breathing wasn't reducing either my HR nor the shonky feeling.

This is not representative of effort, nor is it close to my recent zwift numbers.

Now you know why I won't ride without a HRM

 

[Joffey]

An unsupported Tacx dumb trainer and no power meter, hence not joining the league (would be unfair).

I didn't stop because I blew up on a climb, I could have kept pedalling but my HR spiked too high because of a surge I put in about 30 seconds prior, to carry some speed into the climb. When I get delayed HR spikes I start to feel shonky (not lactic acid) and twiddling a small gear while focusing on my breathing wasn't reducing either.

This is not representative of effort, nor is it close to my recent zwift numbers.
View attachment 503463
Now you know why I won't ride without a HRM

Maybe you need some Zone 2 rides... Less stress on the old ticker!

 

[Edwardoka]

Maybe you need some Zone 2 rides... Less stress on the old ticker!

There's a Zone 2? I appear to have lost mine, just mounting the bike puts me into zone 3

 

[Whorty]

An unsupported Tacx dumb trainer and no power meter, hence not joining the league (would be unfair).

I didn't stop because I blew up on a climb, I could have kept pedalling but my HR spiked too high because of a surge I put in about 30 seconds prior, to carry some speed into the climb. When I get delayed HR spikes I start to feel shonky (not lactic acid) and twiddling a small gear while focusing on my breathing wasn't reducing either my HR nor the shonky feeling.

This is not representative of effort, nor is it close to my recent zwift numbers.
View attachment 503463
Now you know why I won't ride without a HRM

When I first joined this group (in the Bkool days) my HR in races used to be up in the 180's and I'd be lucky to push 180+ watts (and that was on a very generous Bkool trainer!). It's taken a few years, but I consider a HR peak of 171 high now, and I average about 165-168 over a hard race with real (NEO) watts of 220+. Hopefully as your fitness comes you'll see your HR come down too