Zwift Chat

[LBHIFI]

Its true the clues of Zwift draft arent obvious and difficult to read, there is no feel like with bkool or outdoors, where a noticeable drop in effort.

Funny, I never experienced that in Bkool.

 

[theboxers]

There was a malicious rumour spread a while back that Zwift would retrospectively take away ascent gained during its training plans. You would have seen a lot less Tron bikes out on the courss.

Noooooooooo . Don't even joke about the effort needed for the Tron bike. I'm at 19km in my journey to get mine. I've done most of my elevation gain in workouts as I don't race/group ride. The only climb I have not completed is the alpe. I just don't have the time to do a 3 hour session at the moment .

 

[bobinski]

Funny, I never experienced that in Bkool.

Me neither and I always wondered why others said they did. The visual cue was much better though and perhaps helped people think they were experiencing a drop off in effort?

Anyone racing today? May do a 2h endurance ride at 2pm or find a race.

 

[theboxers]

In other news...

https://zwiftinsider.com/new-ramp-test/

 

[<Tommy>]

Funny, I never experienced that in Bkool.

Me neither and I always wondered why others said they did. The visual cue was much better though and perhaps helped people think they were experiencing a drop off in effort?

Anyone racing today? May do a 2h endurance ride at 2pm or find a race.

I used to experience it on Bkool. It was very similar to real life drafting in that I often shifted a gear when I slotted in behind people. So as to maintain the same cadence from before I did so. Just like when you enter the air pocket drafting creates in real life.

Not trying to tell you how to suck eggs but there’s a trick when you’re drafting in real life to avoid fethering the brakes which creates trust in the group. It involves everyone pedling a consistent rhythm and therefore pace. It’s better to shift ratio rather than freewheel as freewheeling creates inconsistencies in rhythm and causes gaps. Bkool, for all their flaws, did the drafting thing pretty well.

I’m riding today but I’ve got to do a bastard climb on brvr goat league that I’ve been avoiding for about 3 weeks!

 

[bobinski]

The sticky draft ive never fully got to grips with, but ive experienced it. If a faster rider passes you, your speed increases without you doing anything. vice versa your speed drops if you approach a slower rider from behind. This is what Carl brought up a few weeks back, the extra effort to break the slower riders affect upon your speed. Its noticeable on slower long climbs where it can take several seconds to pass someone.

That is the skill- for want of a better word finding the ideal position to stay sat up. Thats why the organised rides try and keep a really tight 'blob' to increase overall pack speed. If you're in the centre of a big pack I would expect to be drafting all the time. However the pack, like in real life, is like a swarm and you end up being pushed to the outside and lose the best draft position. I tend not to increase effort in that case, I ease off and wait for my avatar to slot back in behind. I only ever push harder if the pack is breaking up and I want/need to go with the front runners. Assuming I have it in my capacity to go with the faster group.

The Hare n Hounds are entertaining in that youve got a race within a race. watching your pack whilst watching the bigger picture of a fast moving A or B pack moving up fo catch you. You then need to ramp up power massively to tag onto their group. Timing of this effort crucial. Conversely when your group catches a slower pack you need to ramp your effort to break the slow sticky draft and blast through their pack to stay with your own

Perhaps I am just not very observant but I hardly ever notice the sticky draft on claims with so called slower riders . I am not saying it’s not there but I think what often happens is that a slower rider temporarily ups their power. After all no long likes being passed. You can sometimes see it. Now, given the lag of 2s, if they have started to increase power just before you reach them because they know you are coming then you may feel you are stuck to them as you try and pass.
Feck! Now I am over thinking it!

 

[CXRAndy]

Funny, I never experienced that in Bkool.

Same experience as Tommy. It was just like outdoors. I remember the last time i did qualifying for Bkool Winter cup. I was racing with Paul and we were motoring along, soon as Paul took the lead, resistance dropped significantly, so I would drop one gear to keep my cadence high but lower the power sufficiently to stay behind.

Those were unrealistic days where I would be be using 53*11 at 100-105 rpm on the flats.

The feeling is identical to outdoor, where I can literally freewheel in fast moving pack with a low HR,. Zwift is opposite, everyone in the pack moves faster, but the resistance does not let up. Zwift has recognised that they didnt employ the usual draft feeling

 

[Aleman]

I’m riding today but I’ve got to do a bastard climb on brvr goat league that I’ve been avoiding for about 3 weeks!

That's got to be onion Valley Road or la Bonette ... I've been avoiding them too

 

[<Tommy>]

That's got to be onion Valley Road or la Bonette ... I've been avoiding them too

I’ve seen other people’s times and it’s making me wonder if I should pack some food and an over night bag!

 

[Whorty]

Me neither and I always wondered why others said they did. The visual cue was much better though and perhaps helped people think they were experiencing a drop off in effort?

Anyone racing today? May do a 2h endurance ride at 2pm or find a race.

I'm planning a 2hr endurance at 3 (just had lunch so 2pm a bit too soon). saying that, there is a 2pm 120 mins ZSUN endurance ride that I might join. 2.5 to 3 w/kg so a bit stronger than I wanted to go today. Will stick with pack as long as possible then just pootle after I get dropped

 

[CXRAndy]

Perhaps I am just not very observant but I hardly ever notice the sticky draft on claims with so called slower riders . I am not saying it’s not there but I think what often happens is that a slower rider temporarily ups their power. After all no long likes being passed. You can sometimes see it. Now, given the lag of 2s, if they have started to increase power just before you reach them because they know you are coming then you may feel you are stuck to them as you try and pass.
Feck! Now I am over thinking it!

Its Carl's fault, I never even spotted till he brought it up. Its there, faster riders lift your speed albeit briefly. Slower rider holds your speed down just a little longer after you've passed them,. Its a few yards before your speed returns to previous levels . We are not talking 2-3 mph, just 1mph or less. These big events you can spot clearly with all the overtaking happening

 

[<Tommy>]

Perhaps I am just not very observant but I hardly ever notice the sticky draft on claims with so called slower riders . I am not saying it’s not there but I think what often happens is that a slower rider temporarily ups their power. After all no long likes being passed. You can sometimes see it. Now, given the lag of 2s, if they have started to increase power just before you reach them because they know you are coming then you may feel you are stuck to them as you try and pass.
Feck! Now I am over thinking it!

I assumed it was from Zwift trying to slot you into other people’s draft or in the same line with them sort of thing. A down side to creating the drafting aspect.

 

[LBHIFI]

Perhaps I am just not very observant but I hardly ever notice the sticky draft on claims with so called slower riders . I am not saying it’s not there but I think what often happens is that a slower rider temporarily ups their power. After all no long likes being passed. You can sometimes see it. Now, given the lag of 2s, if they have started to increase power just before you reach them because they know you are coming then you may feel you are stuck to them as you try and pass.
Feck! Now I am over thinking it!

Strange, sticky draft is really noticable for me. So much that I literally have to sprint not to get sucked into the black hole.

 

[bridgy]

@TurboTommy if you work out all the answers to your questions about the draft in Zwift please do let me know as much of what you ask is still a mystery to me! I use the tron bike now so don't even get the visual clues of rider sitting up in the draft anyway though - hasn't affected me at all.

Certainly some people are much more skilled than others at conserving their energy in the draft as can be seen in any zwiftpower race results .

I've always thought, and still do, that drafting would be much better in Zwift if the effect was to reduce resistance - like in bkool - rather than just increasing speed. Because you can feel and respond to the change in resistance but not a speed change.

One benefit of the Neo over the bkool trainer on Zwift is it reacts much quicker to changes in power input which helps with drafting. On the bkool the delay in response had me constantly yoyo-ing from the front to the back of the peloton

 

[<Tommy>]

@TurboTommy if you work out all the answers to your questions about the draft in Zwift please do let me know as much of what you ask is still a mystery to me! I use the tron bike now so don't even get the visual clues of rider sitting up in the draft anyway though - hasn't affected me at all.

Certainly some people are much more skilled than others at conserving their energy in the draft as can be seen in any zwiftpower race results .

I've always thought, and still do, that drafting would be much better in Zwift if the effect was to reduce resistance - like in bkool - rather than just increasing speed. Because you can feel and respond to the change in resistance but not a speed change.

One benefit of the Neo over the bkool trainer on Zwift is it reacts much quicker to changes in power input which helps with drafting. On the bkool the delay in response had me constantly yoyo-ing from the front to the back of the peloton

Definitely a few grey areas isn’t there!

I think you can argue the tron bike either way. One way is that it stops you thinking about whether or not you’re in optimal draft as there are no visual prompts. But on the other hand you could potentially be using loads more effort than you need to be as a bi product if that. If you think about it it can make a massive difference at the end of a race. The same as taking less turns, if any at the front can. Or if you are taking the same turns as someone else but he’s conserving more effort through better drafting skills.