Winter Strength training

[Smurfy]

Wow! Seven pages in, and not one mention of the usefulness of fixed-wheel in building strength and suppleness!

 

[Dusty Bin]

Wow! Seven pages in, and not one mention of the usefulness of fixed-wheel in building strength and suppleness!

No mention of the Nazis, either - what's going on...?

 

[lukesdad]

It s believed that core fatigue alters the mechanics below the core, increasing the risk of injury. Now its for everybody to decide for themselves the point at they reach core fatigue and whether they are prepared to risk an imbalance or not. Any cycling will increase muscle development to a certain degree, (can you quantify cycling performance because it means different things to different people.) Im not aware of any study that points to on the bike training that develops the core?

 

[Smurfy]

No mention of the Nazis, either - what's going on...?

What?

It s believed that core fatigue alters the mechanics below the core, increasing the risk of injury. Now its for everybody to decide for themselves the point at they reach core fatigue and whether they are prepared to risk an imbalance or not. Any cycling will increase muscle development to a certain degree, (can you quantify cycling performance because it means different things to different people.) Im not aware of any study that points to on the bike training that develops the core?

Fixed-wheel and single-speed are both excellent for building core strength (you can't ride up hills on FW or SS without core strength).

 

[lukesdad]

What?

Fixed-wheel and single-speed are both excellent for building core strength (you can't ride up hills on FW or SS without core strength).

No thats a load bearing exercise, apparently that doesn't count cycling is not a load bearing exercise and you would need core strength before you entertained fixed

 

[Dusty Bin]

Im not aware of any study that points to on the bike training that develops the core?

Any on-bike training activity will train all muscle groups involved in riding a bike - by definition. If those muscles aren't trained by riding, then my view is they aren't worth training for riding. Why would you train a muscle that you don't use while riding?

 

[Dusty Bin]

What?

Godwin's Law states that in any internet discussion, it is only a matter of time before someone mentions the nazis...

 

[lukesdad]

Any on-bike training activity will train all muscle groups involved in riding a bike - by definition. If those muscles aren't trained by riding, then my view is they aren't worth training for riding. Why would you train a muscle that you don't use while riding?

So that you could continue riding as you do now for as long as you may wish....maybe ?

 

[Dusty Bin]

So that you could continue riding as you do now for as long as you may wish....maybe ?

Indeed - and by definition that could include training every single muscle in the human body. But I thought we were talking about training muscles which improved cycling performance? As opposed to training muscles which might - just might - give us some gip when we're all 85....

 

[Smurfy]

and you would need core strength before you entertained fixed

Which comes first, chicken or egg?

 

[lukesdad]

Indeed - and by definition that could include training every single muscle in the human body. But I thought we were talking about training muscles which improved cycling performance? As opposed to training muscles which might - just might - give us some gip when we're all 85....

You still havn't defined cycling performance ! Now this might come as a bit of a shock to you but not everybody who contributes to this thread is a hotshot road racer, I know hard to take in but thats how it is. Now lets take my immeadiate requirement for cycling performance shall we? I need to get to work 4 days a week 42 miles away on me bike carrying a 10kg rucksack. Poncing about on a turbo in me living room for an hour ain't going to help me one bit is it ?

 

[lukesdad]

Which comes first, chicken or egg?

Quite so.

 

[Dusty Bin]

You still havn't defined cycling performance ! Now this might come as a bit of a shock to you but not everybody who contributes to this thread is a hotshot road racer, I know hard to take in but thats how it is. Now lets take my immeadiate requirement for cycling performance shall we? I need to get to work 4 days a week 42 miles away on me bike carrying a 10kg rucksack. Poncing about on a turbo in me living room for an hour ain't going to help me one bit is it ?

'Cycling performance' = performance-oriented cycling. In other words, anything which helps you get from A-B quicker than you already do - that might include road racing, as you very astutely point out, but it could also include TT, MTB, or sportives - or even just leisure cyclists who want to ride faster just for the hell of it. But unless your journey time is an issue on your commute, then you needn't be worrying yourself on this thread, by the sound of it.

 

[lukesdad]

 

[50000tears]

Strength does play a part, there is no way to get around that, however, the degree to which it plays a part and thus the degree to which you ought to worry about/focus on it is the quandary. Ultimately, unless you are particularly puny (as in you are unable to walk up stairs or get out of a chair) or for other reasons such as physical imbalance or whatever, then you should be able to get all the necessary "strength" training required on the bike by simply riding your bike at various intensities. Given than most people have limited time to train, then it is more efficient to train on the bike. Especially since weight training often influences how well you can perform bike sessions in the following days.

At the end of the day, riding a bike, even riding a bike fast, is a series of many hundreds/thousands of hugely sub-maximal repetitions, even in short efforts. Take for example, a 3 minute Hill Climb, in 'The Rake' Hill Climb (very steep) i.e. a race (in which I was so f***ed, I had to be removed from my bike at the end), I averaged 75rpm for ~3.25 minutes, that is a single set of ~244 reps. On the 'Peaslows' HC, I did ~246 reps. In the National HC Champ's (a longer climb than the other two), ~808 reps. You can see, even from these basic numbers how absolutely sub-maximal each rep is. For reference (and incase anyone wants to work out the torque values), the average power for the above races was 496W, 492W & 398W respectively. I use 175mm cranks. Racing weight was 76kg.

This is not to say that strength or weight training has no benefit to general health etc, because, clearly it does! Especially for those partaking in none weight baring sports and those cracking on a bit.

The problem that is always created with these threads is that everyone wants to talk in absolutes "Yes, weight training is needed" "No, you don't need more strength then you already have"

I quote Rob3rt's post because for me at least it best sums up the reality of the argument. Improved strength is most certainly an aspect of becoming a better cyclist, you use it mostly in climbing and sprinting as part of the whole 'power' package but it also is a part of developing as a cyclist. As a relatively new cyclist I can attest to the more defined muscles in my legs through my first few months of training, my quads in particular are certainly more defined and bigger than they were before. My legs are most without doubt stronger than when I started. My legs can now take longer and more intense rides than they could in the summer without aching the next day.

Whilst the many of you who have been cycling for many years are far more powerful cyclists than me, can put that down mostly due to superior aerobic conditioning, SOME of it is also strength. When we talk of power to weight ratio, strength may not be the primary consideration but neither can it be ignored completely.

Any discussion should not be about whether you need more strength than it takes to walk up stairs to be able to cycle as the answer is no. But to be a very fit cyclist who is always looking to improve then you will gain strength naturally and the question is as to whether adding weight training adds additional benefit. For my view I do do a bit of core work, mostly as I have had lower back problems in the past so want to have a strong core to allow me to be as injury free as possible so I can cycle more! The is also an argument to do some hamstring work as you use your quads primarily in cycling and it helps prevent a leg imbalance due to weaker hamstrings which can again make you more injury prone. I don't do this though.

Again in my opinion most strength improvements come from just riding and are 99% of all most people will need. Strength training for me is all based around injury prevention, which it can then be argued that my cycling is bettered by not being laid up for 4 or 5 weeks a year if I do have injuries that could have been avoided.