cougie uk
Guru
Mine isn't leased. Dunno about other people but I'm a real person.
I think leasing is very common for all new cars. No matter what fuels them ?
Why do people get such strong feelings over electric cars and solar panels etc.
- Thread starter Gillstay
- Start date
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Mine isn't leased. Dunno about other people but I'm a real person.
I think leasing is very common for all new cars. No matter what fuels them ?
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
Probably about as many as anything but budget ICE cars.,
Very few people buy new family sized cars outright for themselves. They either buy second hand, buy on a lease, or get them as company cars.
I get the thought process that says it's not worth spending (say) £6k on something that has a market value of £2.5k.
But; another way of looking at it is to say, in the example you give, £6k battery replacement cost spread over an anticipated further 10 years of use is cheap.
It's a bit like buying an old Raleigh and spending £150 doing it up in the knowledge that it will last another 20 years, even though its market value is only £50 in its current state.
Tldr If I was buying a car I'd probably go for a used Leaf for £3k, use it and budget for a replacement battery within a couple of years, then hope for another 5 to 10 years use
A fair argument, although one that takes a fair leap of faith that the rest of the vehicle will last that time. Granted given the format there's probably less to go wrong than in an IC vehicle, however that's not to say there's nothing... while modern vehicles (both IC and presumably electric) are full of elctronic boxes that can cost a hell of a lot if they go wrong.
Personally I'd not feel comfortable throwing 2.5 times the purchase price at any form of old vehicle on the assumption that it would continue to remain viable over the next 10yrs..
Other than a bike obviously, as you suggest - but then these are a lot more predictable, user-serviceable and of course special
Nah, not really a major player - only the world's largest manufacture of motor vehicles (as of 2018, according to Wikipedia)..
| Rank | Group | Country | Vehicles |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Toyota | Japan | 8,091,277 |
| 2 | Volkswagen Group | Germany | 6,746,204 |
| 3 | Ford | United States | 5,329,290 |
| 4 | Honda | Japan | 4,966,037 |
| 5 | Nissan | Japan | 4,750,863 |
| 6 | Hyundai | South Korea | 4,076,913 |
| 7 | Chevrolet | United States | 3,881,747 |
| 8 | Suzuki | Japan | 3,046,585 |
| 9 | Kia | South Korea | 2,638,782 |
| 10 | Daimler | Germany | 2,551,806 |
| 11 | Renault | France | 2,288,406 |
| 12 | BMW | Germany | 2,077,314 |
| 13 | Audi | Germany | 1,812,411 |
| 14 | Mazda | Japan | 1,550,131 |
| 15 | Jeep | United States | 1,548,333 |
| 16 | Peugeot | France | 1,533,574 |
| 17 | Geely | China | 1,384,836 |
| 18 | Fiat | Italy | 1,377,699 |
| 19 | Buick | United States | 1,291,266 |
| 20 | Škoda | Czech Republic | 1,243,494 |
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
But really not world leaders in non fossil fueled vehicles.
They seem to want to go down a different path to everybody else.
Indeed.. which of course makes one question why this might be the case.
What conclusions might be drawn from this enormous manufacturer, with it's correspondlingly massive R&D budget, typically pragmatic, responsible and environmentally-conscious Japanese values and high standards / levels of technical proficiency choosing not to persue EVs?
Perhaps it's that they've done their homework and don't believe the system is viable, or that there are potentialy better alternatives?
While I can understand legit criticism of some (especially yank) manufacturers like Ford and GM not wanting to deviate from the norm as it costs money, lets not forget that it was the Japanese who pioneered a move towards electric propulsion with Toyota's Prius and Honda's Civic Hybrid and CR-Z, while they've always been well ahead of the curve re. environmental responsibility.
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roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
Toyota *is* pursing EVs
https://www.toyota-europe.com/electrification
We believe that multiple technology solutions are necessary to get there, faster. Ultimately, the market will be zero-emission battery electric vehicles (BEV), fuel cell electric vehicles (FCEV) or other technologies. Currently, not everyone has access to ZEVs due to lack of infrastructure or market barriers. Which is why we offer BEVs and FCEVs and PHEVs and HEVs. We call this the ‘power of AND’ because rarely does one size fit all when you consider the diversity of customer needs. Providing access to multiple technologies is a more inclusive path towards carbon neutrality and enables us to significantly decarbonise society now.
OK, let's rephrase that to "pursue EVs exclusively" - seems they have a far more realistic attitude than the flawed and overly simplistic "ban everything, EVs for everyone" mantra pushed by many governments..
Alex321
Guru
- Location
- South Wales
TBF, governments aren't saying "EVs for everyone", they are just saying "No more ICE Vehicles".
It is the manufacturers who are mainly rushing down the route of "that means EVs". With the exception of Toyota, it seems.
Maybe, maybe not. To come at it from another angle then, I don't have any faith in any of the currently available alternatives to IC vehicles.. with the exception of the bike of course
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"Toyota has a long history of opposing electric vehicles, both through lobbying and disinformation in its marketing. The company has consistently been the most obstructive global automaker when it comes to electrification and among the slowest to scale up its EV efforts."
Their BZ4X EV has been a flop in the China, and the USA. Literally have sold only a few thousand in each country.
Their BZ4X EV has been a flop in the China, and the USA. Literally have sold only a few thousand in each country.
roubaixtuesday
self serving virtue signaller
I'm not saying you're wrong, I don't know enough to judge, but it would be good if you disclosed your sources
Electrek is an American news website dedicated to electric transportation and sustainable energy.[2] Electrek is known for its extensive, positive coverage of electric transportation in general and Tesla specifically. Their positive coverage of Tesla has been criticized by some automotive journalists.[3][4][5] Its main authors have disclosed ownership of Tesla stock, substantial profit from referrals to Tesla, and ownership of Tesla cars.[6][2
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrek
OP
OP
Gillstay
Veteran
I would feel GM were the most obstructive, having watched `Who killed the electric car'. What a shot in the foot that was ! They could have been there years before Tesla. idiotic.
the snail
Guru
- Location
- Chippenham
You have to take anything Toyota says with a generous pinch of salt. A lot of the stuff they announce is either vapourware, or a distraction like hydrogen, ammonia which I don't think even Toyota are daft enough to believe. I think a lot of these announcements are aimed at persuading shareholders not to dump their stock. At a time when the world's best selling car is a Tesla rather than a toyota, they don't really make BEVs at all. Sooner rather than later China will stick the knife in and ban ICE sales, at which point legacy manufacturers like toyota who rely on chinese sales, but don't have a competitive BEV will be dead in the water. The position of Toyota and the other Japanese manufacturers isn't driven by technology, I think they have been reluctant to rely on chinese battery tecnology given their rocky relationship with China, and the traditional isolationist attitudes in Japan.
