We Are Too Nice

[Bruce]

66
You should

• [...]
• never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends

It's already been quoted by your mate Bruce upthread. Keep up!

Deffo Not my mate !

 

[automatic_jon]

There are a few members of our club who ride far too close the the verge, any closer and they'd be in the ditch. Where as others get told off by the ride leader for being too assertive (that would be me then).

I don't believe that one should be submissive to drivers simply because they're motorists as some seem to. I thoroughly believe that if motorists get used to cyclist pulling over for them and doffing their caps each time they pass then they'll come to expect it, Pavalov's dog style.

If drivers can't respect cyclist's rights to use the road and not be run down then do they deserve their assumed right to unobstructed, hight speed travel respected in return? (I may be a little bitter, it's 1 year since I was mow'n down)

Perhaps the best compromise is some where between polite without being submissive and assertive without being obstructive.

 

[CotterPin]

A month or 2 back I saw a pack of cyclists riding peloton style down a country lane (note they weren't racing) These boys should have known better. Really pished me off

If the guys you saw are anything like the group I ride with they would recognise that singling out to allow drivers to pass actually makes it more dangerous for all concerned. We have had drivers attempt an overtake when we have singled out and then having to pull back in suddenly to avoid somebody coming in the other direction. Also, we tend to do a decent lick which for the meandering country lanes is approaching an appropriate speed. Occasionally we will create breaks in the group to allow drivers to pass in stages.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

There are a few members of our club who ride far too close the the verge, any closer and they'd be in the ditch. Where as others get told off by the ride leader for being too assertive (that would be me then).

I don't believe that one should be submissive to drivers simply because they're motorists as some seem to. I thoroughly believe that if motorists get used to cyclist pulling over for them and doffing their caps each time they pass then they'll come to expect it, Pavalov's dog style.

If drivers can't respect cyclist's rights to use the road and not be run down then do they deserve their assumed right to unobstructed, hight speed travel respected in return? (I may be a little bitter, it's 1 year since I was mow'n down)

Perhaps the best compromise is some where between polite without being submissive and assertive without being obstructive.

A splendid post. I would defend the cyclist's right, individually or collectively, to be obstructive if, in their judgement, their safety demanded it. In my book, it goes Safety, Cyclecraft, the Law, the Highway Code and my subjective judgement is all I've got.

I've held a fully clean driving licence for 30+ years, still drive regulalry, have passed both advanced driving and riding tests and have indulged in deliberate blocking, i..e holding primary even if it obstructs a following car or cars, when cycling to protect myself or, more frequently, to protect the others I've been riding with. This may antagonise the drivers. A small price to pay to remain safe.

 

[400bhp]

66
You should

• [...]
• never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends

It's already been quoted by your mate Bruce upthread. Keep up!

You should never = must: rolleyes:

 

[MartinC]

You should never = must: rolleyes:

You're missing the point. The HC isn't the law, it does however often indicates what is covered by the law by using the words "must" or "must not". In this case it isn't using the words so it's not suggesting that it's illegal. If you want to make the case that riding more than 2 abreast is illegal you need to either quote the relevant piece of legislation or the precedents that establish that this is covered by other laws. Or you could just accept the valid point that other posters have made - riding more than 2 abreast isn't recommended by the HC but isn't illegal.

 

[theclaud]

You're missing the point. The HC isn't the law, it does however often indicates what is covered by the law by using the words "must" or "must not". In this case it isn't using the words so it's not suggesting that it's illegal. If you want to make the case that riding more than 2 abreast is illegal you need to either quote the relevant piece of legislation or the precedents that establish that this is covered by other laws. Or you could just accept the valid point that other posters have made - riding more than 2 abreast isn't recommended by the HC but isn't illegal.

Quite - but as 400bhp, hilariously, can't even keep track of his own (slightly irrelevant) argument, there would seem to be a snowball in hell's chance of him getting to grips with the broader issues. If it were actually illegal to ride more than two abreast even when perfectly safe to do so, we would simply have to ask ourselves why. There have, after all, been a couple of very sensible posts from experienced group riders explaining how it works.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Every bit of the Highway code that is law contains the references to the legislation in bold underneath it. e.g.

"Section 64

You MUST NOT cycle on a pavement.

[Laws HA 1835 sect 72 & R(S)A 1984, sect 129]"

But even that isn't an accurate reflection of how the home office say that law is to be enforced. And the HC contains internal tensions due to poor editing, see section 206 which says drivers should

"Drive carefully and slowly when

• needing to cross a pavement or cycle track; for example, to reach or leave a driveway. Give way to pedestrians and cyclists on the pavement "

So that would be the law breaking cyclists then? Mow the buggers down I say, shouldn't ruddy be there.

Everything else in the HC is (merely) nanny giving you advice.

Read what drivers should do that isn't law. Contemplate why they don't.

A huge amounts of the HC is a dead letter nowadays.

 

[byegad]

What's wrong with being nice? Isn't that the sort of behaviour we are trying to encourage in all road users.




Even as an avowed atheist, I find believing in Karma a great way to get through the worst of commuting days.

I always try to be considerate as I ride. Getting into a confrontation with over 1t of metal in the hands of an annoyed idiot is a short cut to casualty or worse.

Since I retired I've been riding a large handful of routes on a regular basis, usually getting out 4 or 5 times a week.
I'm on nodding terms with most of the local farmers and many other cyclist and drivers who use the roads near me. I've even been stopped in the street of a local town, me not in cycling gear, to be told I've been spotted on the road and asked what sort of trike I was riding. Recumbent trikes are distinctive so I'm easily remembered but I feel that what goes around comes around and being bloody minded is a poor tactic.

 

[400bhp]

Quite - but as 400bhp, hilariously, can't even keep track of his own (slightly irrelevant) argument, there would seem to be a snowball in hell's chance of him getting to grips with the broader issues. If it were actually illegal to ride more than two abreast even when perfectly safe to do so, we would simply have to ask ourselves why. There have, after all, been a couple of very sensible posts from experienced group riders explaining how it works.

I bow to your superior intelligence.

I apologise - I was skim reading. That'll learn me

 

[theclaud]

There's an inaccurate assumption at work that assertiveness is likely to lead to violent confrontation. In fact, being calmly assertive is often the best way to head off confrontation, because it challenges the power dynamic that is making the confrontation possible. When someone is bullying you from the safety of a tonne of metal, they are usually doing so because they are expecting you to be intimidated and to let them have their way, and also because they can abuse you as they pass and then not stick around to face you. You'd be amazed at how unscary the most burly, loud-mouthed motorist usually becomes when an unarmed cyclist taps gently at the window and makes the winding-down sign. Defensive and rude, sometimes, but not scary. All you need is to take away their advantage...

 

[Crackle]

Especially in hospital car parks...

 

[theclaud]

Especially in hospital car parks...

Ha! Nowt wrong with your forum memory, is there?

 

[Bruce]

You're missing the point. The HC isn't the law, it does however often indicates what is covered by the law by using the words "must" or "must not". In this case it isn't using the words so it's not suggesting that it's illegal. If you want to make the case that riding more than 2 abreast is illegal you need to either quote the relevant piece of legislation or the precedents that establish that this is covered by other laws. Or you could just accept the valid point that other posters have made - riding more than 2 abreast isn't recommended by the HC but isn't illegal.

I am not so sure the discussion is really about the legality of doing it, its more about just being considerate and not inviting further criticism or at least giving the excuse for further criticism from other road users. ASL are a good example of this, someone somewhere thought they would be a good idea, how can it ever foster good relations when one of the slowest road users are invited to sit at the head of a traffic queue thus creating further delay once the lights eventually change?

I cycle 4500-5000 miles a year and I dont have even 1% of the problems folk on here seem to have, I cant give a reason why perhaps I am just a little more realistic of what is going on out on the roads and as such a little more accomodating, I deffo dont feel the need to video everthing, then place on on You Tube accompany by pre pubescent school girl screaming and bad language, I also dont feel the need to act as some kind of self appointed Policeman and go around giving out advice to all and sundry, then get upset when I get abuse in return.

I think its just a state of mind, so if you are compelled to ride 2 abreast thus not showing any consideration for faster moving traffic, DONT complain if they verbally abuse you, but by all means carry on and do it

 

[Crackle]

Ha! Nowt wrong with your forum memory, is there?

My forum memory no. Wish I could remember why I just got up to go somewhere though. Anyway I couldn't, so sat back down again.