We Are Too Nice

[theclaud]

I am nice and the world is a slightly happier place for it.

Congratulations! That must be, er... nice for you...

 

[661-Pete]

A few people are misunderstanding me, Ben included (surprise surprise). I am not advocatiing being rude or angry, or deliberately obstructing people when it is perfectly safe for them to pass.

Sorry, you could have fooled me, bearing in mind what you said in your OP:

...so we will have to teach them, and if it means being a little bloody-minded, then so be it. Like many people, I often move over unnecessarily when cars want to pass while riding two abreast, just because it seems nicer, and drivers like it. Bollocks to it - I am now going to do the opposite, and ride two abreast at every opportunity (except when genuinely delaying an otherwise considerate driver) until the idiots learn. We need to stop moving over, or things will not get better.

Is it really my first? How exciting!

It certainly is! I did a sort of the entire Commuting forum by Thread Starter (having figured out how to do that), and your name only comes up once. So would you agree, your first thread in a forum you appear not to frequent, is a wee bit confrontational, eh?

 

[threebikesmcginty]

Must be a slow day in P&L.

As long as you can be seen by motorists it shouln't be too much of a problem ... get yourself seen!

http://www.nationala...mpage_pedal.htm - you'll love the 'take a brush to your bike' bit seeing as yours hasn't got any paint.

 

[rich p]

!

http://www.nationala...mpage_pedal.htm - you'll love the 'take a brush to your bike' bit seeing as yours hasn't got any paint.

That's a catchy little number!

 

[brokenbetty]

A few people are misunderstanding me, Ben included (surprise surprise). I am not advocatiing being rude or angry, or deliberately obstructing people when it is perfectly safe for them to pass. I am merely suggesting that we cease the practice of unnecessarily falling into single file just to please motorists - almost everyone I know does this, and I think it is sending the wrong message. The obvious example is when the car would have to wait exactly the same amount of time to pass safely if you were alone and in secondary position. If there is someone behind me and my pulling over for a moment genuinely facilitates their considerate passing, without causing me delay or incovenience, then I am quite happy to do so.

I often delay myself by holding open the door for the person on the other side. It's not necessary and it doubt it makes much practical difference to how easily they pass through the door, but still I hold the door, and they smile and say thank you, and I smile and say no problem, and we both go away a bit happier.

People like to be noticed, and gestures of politeness are never a waste of effort.

 

[theclaud]

Sorry, you could have fooled me, bearing in mind what you said in your OP:

It certainly is! I did a sort of the entire Commuting forum by Thread Starter (having figured out how to do that), and your name only comes up once. So would you agree, your first thread in a forum you appear not to frequent, is a wee bit confrontational, eh?

I usually swim in the calmer waters of P&L and Informal Rides - I'm just upping my game to suit the edgier section. Beyond the circumstances of yesterdays commute, my point, broadly speaking, is that riding side by side is A Good Thing, and that people don't do nearly enough of it. And I think intimidation by motorists, or the internalisation of hostility from motorists, is the main reason. Are we going to tackle this situation or not? My companion of yesterday was a 76-year old friend who was just flagging at the end of a 70-mile ride on a hot day. He told me today that it picked him up to have some unexpected company, and made the hill lighter work.

 

[661-Pete]

PEACE!!

I usually swim in the calmer waters of P&L

That's delicious irony!
[Fiona and Charles mode]Completely untrue! Utterly,utterly, pure fantasy! Total moonshine! And yet - somehow - a grain of truth!?
[/Fiona and Charles mode]
Seems to me P&L does have its 'slow' days as someone mentioned. And you're right in that Commuting can get incendiary at times. Don't I know it. Ho hum. That's Cyclechat...

 

[magnatom]

I think I get your point. It's actually something I have discussed with others before. Riding two abreast, sometimes doesn't take up any more road than riding on your own. For example, on a road where the cyclist would be best in the primary position (1 cyclist), then it is perfectly reasonable for two cyclists to ride side by side, one in the secondary, one in the primary, taking up the same space. So if the cyclists did decide to single file it, then if they were riding correctly they would both be taking up the primary position, (perhaps one could be slightly less assertive in road position) taking up more of the road, and thus being more difficult to overtake.

The problem is driver perception. It looks more accommodating if you single up.

 

[theclaud]

I think I get your point. It's actually something I have discussed with others before. Riding two abreast, sometimes doesn't take up any more road than riding on your own. For example, on a road where the cyclist would be best in the primary position (1 cyclist), then it is perfectly reasonable for two cyclists to ride side by side, one in the secondary, one in the primary, taking up the same space. So if the cyclists did decide to single file it, then if they were riding correctly they would both be taking up the primary position, (perhaps one could be slightly less assertive in road position) taking up more of the road, and thus being more difficult to overtake.

The problem is driver perception. It looks more accommodating if you single up.

Spot on. I don't think that looking accommodating is a priority, or a very effective way of responding to bullying. It goes a little beyond the not making any difference thing - it's necessary to manage the traffic a bit, especially when you are the more confident in any group of riders, which often means deciding when is the best time to allow someone to pass. If you've decided, for whatever reason, that it's not a good time for someone to pass, then it's not a good idea to give them a signal that encourages them to do so. If you've inconvenienced someone slightly in the interests of a safer ride, or simply of allowing your companion to finish a sentence, and they've responded pleasantly, you can always give them a wave of thanks as they pass.

 

[theclaud]

PEACE!!

That's delicious irony!
[Fiona and Charles mode]Completely untrue! Utterly,utterly, pure fantasy! Total moonshine! And yet - somehow - a grain of truth!?
[/Fiona and Charles mode]
Seems to me P&L does have its 'slow' days as someone mentioned. And you're right in that Commuting can get incendiary at times. Don't I know it. Ho hum. That's Cyclechat...

I'm entirely in earnest. This is far and away the touchiest bit of the forum. Only in Commuting will a suggestion to ride in a companionable fashion draw insinuations that you are something other than Nice.

 

[theclaud]

Must be a slow day in P&L.

As long as you can be seen by motorists it shouln't be too much of a problem ... get yourself seen!

http://www.nationala...mpage_pedal.htm - you'll love the 'take a brush to your bike' bit seeing as yours hasn't got any paint.

I can't listen cos I'm in the office. Which is just as well, as I suspect it might make my blood boil. Don't even start me on RoSPA...

 

[GrumpyGregry]

One can be entirely polite, and entirely assertive, and entirely in possession of primary all at one and the same time.

A situation which does, I admit, contain more than a little creative tension at times but which, nonetheless, if occupied repeatedly and in the face of provocation, can be immensely satisfying. If I'm causing what I consider a gross delay to a fellow, or risking my safety then I'll surrender primary but otherwise, I work in the principle that if I was driving a truck or a bin lorry they would wait so they will have to wait for me.

Hands up; a principle that works well in dull semi rural market towns and less well in a truly urban setting.

As a cyclist; I'm there by right. As a driver; I'm there by license. My licences can be revoked. My rights are a little more difficult to take away.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I'm entirely in earnest. This is far and away the touchiest bit of the forum. Only in Commuting will a suggestion to ride in a companionable fashion draw insinuations that you are something other than Nice.

some folk are too convivial for their own good. at least in the eyes of others, anyway.

 

[Arch]

I think I get your point. It's actually something I have discussed with others before. Riding two abreast, sometimes doesn't take up any more road than riding on your own. For example, on a road where the cyclist would be best in the primary position (1 cyclist), then it is perfectly reasonable for two cyclists to ride side by side, one in the secondary, one in the primary, taking up the same space. So if the cyclists did decide to single file it, then if they were riding correctly they would both be taking up the primary position, (perhaps one could be slightly less assertive in road position) taking up more of the road, and thus being more difficult to overtake.

The problem is driver perception. It looks more accommodating if you single up.

How fab it would be, if you were riding two abreast like that, and a car came up behind and the driver indicaed somehow that you should single up, and you did...

With the inner cyclist moving out to primary in front of the outer one....

Preferably with a highly courteous wave of the 'there you are, sir, sorry to be a problem' sort.

Seriously, you're right of course, but as we all know, very few drivers understand about primary anyway, so the logic is lost on them.

 

[400bhp]

Just for info I reproduce rule 66 below

• never ride more than two abreast, and ride in single file on narrow or busy roads and when riding round bends

Ride in single file on narrow or busy roads, I know these are suggestions, and in this case who defines busy or narrow, but as you say you were abused by 8 motorists in 1/2 mile I would say that was busy road.


Good Luck

What he said.