We Are Too Nice
- Thread starter theclaud
- Start date
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Aperitif
Meme bar
- Location
- ...I don't have much idea - really.
I would always be riding on the outside of a lady, protecting her against splashes etc from passing carriages...it's the horses that are neigh sayers that really bug me.
GrasB
Veteran
- Location
- Nr Cambridge
IMO It doesn't which is why you don't see any videos on youtube from my commutes despite having 2 action cams on my bike,
1) nice in theory however try doing it in practice & often you find that either you or the other party ends up getting far more irate than they intended.
2) yeah but I'd really like to do so without feeling as though I need to have mm accurate bike handling skills & braking abilities which rival an F1 car.
I have only been cycling for about 12 months, mainly for the commute to work or to run errands. I am still very nervous on roads with heavy traffic.
On the whole my experiences have been good, I can only re-call 2/3 incidents with motorists over the last year. In fact when I first started I was surprised at how considerate most motorists were when seeing me. This came as a bit of a surprise as in my experience people turn in to monsters when they get behind a steering wheel.
I do get a lot of pleasure from cycling, I get no pleasure from driving which unfortunately is a necessary evil (I drive at work). When driving I have always tried to take great care around cyclists, since I started cycling I have far more respect for cyclists.
Until joining the forum I had never heard of SMIDSY which I think is a great campaign. Perhaps more should be done to promote this campaign to drivers to make them more aware.
On the whole my experiences have been good, I can only re-call 2/3 incidents with motorists over the last year. In fact when I first started I was surprised at how considerate most motorists were when seeing me. This came as a bit of a surprise as in my experience people turn in to monsters when they get behind a steering wheel.
I do get a lot of pleasure from cycling, I get no pleasure from driving which unfortunately is a necessary evil (I drive at work). When driving I have always tried to take great care around cyclists, since I started cycling I have far more respect for cyclists.
Until joining the forum I had never heard of SMIDSY which I think is a great campaign. Perhaps more should be done to promote this campaign to drivers to make them more aware.
Arch
Married to Night Train
- Location
- Salford, UK
I think the trouble is that like everyone, drivers are all different sorts of people.
Now that it's school holidays, we are getting kids pestering us when working the local council estate. They hang around when we're trying to work, try and get a tow off our trikes or van, pester us with stupid questions and insults, and occasionally try to get on our trikes, or into the van. One undid my hope disk brake adjuster once, all the way - if I hadn't checked it, I'd have had no brakes.
Anyway. Generally we start off saying engaging them in conversation, and progress to 'don't do that please, no you can't ride the trike, get down please, leave that alone.' This works on some. Others you have to shout at, and wave a manky recycling box at their heads. Some, even this doesn't work.
So it is with drivers. Some will learn from politeness, some will only learn from anger, and some will only care if the angry person is bigger than them. What works one second, for one driver, won't work for the next.
The point being.. There isn't one answer, so we might as well do what keeps us happiest and calmest.
Now that it's school holidays, we are getting kids pestering us when working the local council estate. They hang around when we're trying to work, try and get a tow off our trikes or van, pester us with stupid questions and insults, and occasionally try to get on our trikes, or into the van. One undid my hope disk brake adjuster once, all the way - if I hadn't checked it, I'd have had no brakes.
Anyway. Generally we start off saying engaging them in conversation, and progress to 'don't do that please, no you can't ride the trike, get down please, leave that alone.' This works on some. Others you have to shout at, and wave a manky recycling box at their heads. Some, even this doesn't work.
So it is with drivers. Some will learn from politeness, some will only learn from anger, and some will only care if the angry person is bigger than them. What works one second, for one driver, won't work for the next.
The point being.. There isn't one answer, so we might as well do what keeps us happiest and calmest.
CopperBrompton
Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
- Location
- London
+1 to everyone who said we achieve far more by being nice than by being bloody-minded.
If riding two-abreast and someone behind cannot pass us safely, I'll pull in to help them. When someone has waited patiently behind me for a safe opportunity to pass (narrow road, bend, etc), I'll give them a thumbs-up when they do begin a safe pass. Etc, etc.
Cycling, like driving, is far more pleasant if people are friendly and cooperative. I can see no sense at all in deliberately winding people up, it just makes it more likely they'll do something impatient later on, quite possibly to the detriment of a fellow cyclist.
If riding two-abreast and someone behind cannot pass us safely, I'll pull in to help them. When someone has waited patiently behind me for a safe opportunity to pass (narrow road, bend, etc), I'll give them a thumbs-up when they do begin a safe pass. Etc, etc.
Cycling, like driving, is far more pleasant if people are friendly and cooperative. I can see no sense at all in deliberately winding people up, it just makes it more likely they'll do something impatient later on, quite possibly to the detriment of a fellow cyclist.
A few people are misunderstanding me, Ben included (surprise surprise). I am not advocatiing being rude or angry, or deliberately obstructing people when it is perfectly safe for them to pass. I am merely suggesting that we cease the practice of unnecessarily falling into single file just to please motorists - almost everyone I know does this, and I think it is sending the wrong message. The obvious example is when the car would have to wait exactly the same amount of time to pass safely if you were alone and in secondary position. If there is someone behind me and my pulling over for a moment genuinely facilitates their considerate passing, without causing me delay or incovenience, then I am quite happy to do so.
CopperBrompton
Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
- Location
- London
Well, perhaps we are misunderstanding, but a lot of courteous driving or cycling includes a very slight delay or inconvenience to ourselves, that's what makes it courteous.
I don't have a helmet, and I have to confess I just get bored watching footage of commutes unless something really extraordinary happens, which I hope it doesn't. I don't want to "get back" at anyone - I want to ride without being abused. For all any of the drivers knew, I might have been helping a partially-sighted companion or a nervous rider by shielding them from cars. I always do this when riding with my mother, or other people who are inexperienced on roads. But it seems to be perfectly valid that I want to talk to my cycling companion, when my doing so actually makes very little difference to anyone intending to pass me safely. Whoever asked about the road, it's the B4436 Mayals Road - yes it is fairly busy, and almost everyone speeds on it - I have no intention of helping them to do so by getting out of their way. It is a nice place for a case-study in futile impatience.
You're nit-picking - the decider for me is really whether I am holding them up unreasonably, or whether they are simply expecting me to move because I am a cyclist and they are a motorist - if someone waits patiently behind me while I'm bimbling along a narrow country lane, I'm quite happy to stop at a passing place for them to get past. I am also happy to stop whenever a pedestrian wants to cross the road. I like cycling next to people, and I don't see that I should forfeit the right to a conversation to bring an imaginary benefit to impatient motorists.
CopperBrompton
Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
- Location
- London
Not at all: I'm providing a more nuanced reply ...
[QUOTE 1145271"]
Correct in a way Claudine but the way you describe doing is a wee bit OTT imo.
I don't see how drivers will 'learn', I just think it will antogonise them even more. Don't let what eight muppets and some idiot in a car cloud your judgement in the other methods of how to educate drivers.
Ultimately it needs to come from the top down.
[/quote]
Lee I hope you don't for a moment think that I would be deliberately provocative in Commuting...
Not sure what you mean by top down. I think I've noticed some aspects of driver behaviour improving in places where cyclists behave assertively in significant numbers. So that's what I'm suggesting. I don't think the driver who tried to squeeze past the FNRttC at the bridge will think that cyclists are such a pushover since he made the mistake of trying to bully Andrij...
Correct in a way Claudine but the way you describe doing is a wee bit OTT imo.
I don't see how drivers will 'learn', I just think it will antogonise them even more. Don't let what eight muppets and some idiot in a car cloud your judgement in the other methods of how to educate drivers.
Ultimately it needs to come from the top down.
[/quote]
Lee I hope you don't for a moment think that I would be deliberately provocative in Commuting...
Not sure what you mean by top down. I think I've noticed some aspects of driver behaviour improving in places where cyclists behave assertively in significant numbers. So that's what I'm suggesting. I don't think the driver who tried to squeeze past the FNRttC at the bridge will think that cyclists are such a pushover since he made the mistake of trying to bully Andrij...
I don't have a problem with being polite to other road users, even if they don't reciprocate. It doesn't really irk me. On the contrary it gives me a clear conscience. Even if I end up 'losing the argument' with a moron. Better to lose your argument with a moron than to lose your life to a moron.
So - by corollary - I don't have a problem with singling up when road conditions are such that singling up is a help to other road users. There are plenty of roads, on the other hand, where you can double up in perfect safety without inconveniencing anyone. Why not leave it at that?
Oh, and congrats on your first 'Commuting' thread, TC!
Er... this was one of them. I'd usually ride the whole thing in a strong secondary, with a touch of primary for the pinch points - drivers on it are annoyed by this as well.
Is it really my first? How exciting!
