Time for action
- Thread starter magnatom
- Start date
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ttcycle
Cycling Excusiast
Reply from Kate Cairns:
xxxx - thanks for this
xxx, can you comment on this?! How will it fit with our film? Can we collaborate?
xxxxx, I totally agree with your comments (obviously!). It is essential that the conclusion of this, however well intentioned, is not just another - its up the the cyclist not to go down the inside, otherwise they cant complain when they die - There is a very real chance of this happening. Esp in light of the phrasing of xxxxx email below. xxxx, ccing you in. I think its a great idea by the way, just have to be really careful not to re-emphasise incorrect assumptions (as in the police investigation into Eilidh's death which I wont go into here but xxx captures the main issue)
Have we got specific stats on how many experienced cyclists have died whilst the lorry was NOT turning left. I know of Eilidh and Anthony in Reading. They should highlight this.
After watching that TfL video and the size of those blind spots, a good guide on restrictions/ legislation would be to ban HGVs with any blind spot bigger than the area of x no of cyclists, and HGVs with a total blind area greater than y number of cyclists. This would by default keep the massive vehicles out unless they had very good blind spot reduction methods. ie an incentive as well as a stick.
Another point, xxxxx, I think it would have much more power if you got HGV drivers bought in. I think its unfair of the system and their companies to expect them to drive blind such dangerous vehicles in such hazardous spaces. They are probably under massive pressure to not complain and do the job. They are being placed in an unenviable situation. Like the quote on the TfL video - that it's not easy to drive in streets that are not really designed for the vehicles - or sthg of the like, ie get them to say how impossible it is.
Sorry for the unorganised thought process.
xxx, I would really like to be kept in the loop with what you are putting out.
Best wishes
Kate
Second email:
Following my previous email Ive just seen this mail from you. Just to be pedantic:
Kate
I think we do need to broaden it out- it will have more impact - it doesn't all have to be done through the members on here as there are other individuals and organisations that will be on board - we just have to link it up and have a concerted effort that will be one big campaign rather than lots of little fractured efforts that don't go anywhere - feel free to disagree - we can duke it out-lol
xxxx - thanks for this
xxx, can you comment on this?! How will it fit with our film? Can we collaborate?
xxxxx, I totally agree with your comments (obviously!). It is essential that the conclusion of this, however well intentioned, is not just another - its up the the cyclist not to go down the inside, otherwise they cant complain when they die - There is a very real chance of this happening. Esp in light of the phrasing of xxxxx email below. xxxx, ccing you in. I think its a great idea by the way, just have to be really careful not to re-emphasise incorrect assumptions (as in the police investigation into Eilidh's death which I wont go into here but xxx captures the main issue)
Have we got specific stats on how many experienced cyclists have died whilst the lorry was NOT turning left. I know of Eilidh and Anthony in Reading. They should highlight this.
After watching that TfL video and the size of those blind spots, a good guide on restrictions/ legislation would be to ban HGVs with any blind spot bigger than the area of x no of cyclists, and HGVs with a total blind area greater than y number of cyclists. This would by default keep the massive vehicles out unless they had very good blind spot reduction methods. ie an incentive as well as a stick.
Another point, xxxxx, I think it would have much more power if you got HGV drivers bought in. I think its unfair of the system and their companies to expect them to drive blind such dangerous vehicles in such hazardous spaces. They are probably under massive pressure to not complain and do the job. They are being placed in an unenviable situation. Like the quote on the TfL video - that it's not easy to drive in streets that are not really designed for the vehicles - or sthg of the like, ie get them to say how impossible it is.
Sorry for the unorganised thought process.
xxx, I would really like to be kept in the loop with what you are putting out.
Best wishes
Kate
Following my previous email Ive just seen this mail from you. Just to be pedantic:
- The need for several mirrors - there are a number of blind spots (including in front of the cab) - Eilidh was apparently in the one on the driver's front side
- The need to use the mirrors - they are only as good as the driver who uses them
- The need for other measures in addition to mirrors, ie cameras in cabs, proximity sensors, audio alarms when vehicles turning. (Eilidh's lorry had all the mirrors, and the police concluded that they were correctly positioned, and they concluded that the driver used them. She wasnt in a well known blind spot (on the nearside), she wasnt coming up the nearside, she wasnt filtering, yet he still crushed her.)
Kate
I think we do need to broaden it out- it will have more impact - it doesn't all have to be done through the members on here as there are other individuals and organisations that will be on board - we just have to link it up and have a concerted effort that will be one big campaign rather than lots of little fractured efforts that don't go anywhere - feel free to disagree - we can duke it out-lol
Ben Lovejoy said:
I'm at my in-laws so limited time to write. However, Ben, I assumed that we would have footage for two videos from one days filming (i.e. different editing) one would aim at HGV drivers, and one at cyclists. The different slogans would be on the different videos. I'm sure Jake could tell us if this would make the filming too long, however, I think the similar shots could be used just with different editing.
I mentioned this previously, but it is certainly possible that within this thread that you missed it!
- Location
- Next door to Mr Benn at No 54
I have finally been able to read through the last twenty or so pages of this thread to up-date the very kind offers from people. If I have made any errors, please let me know, and I will amend it.
Would it be an idea to have this list as a separate thread? The list is getting longer, and as people offer their help, they are not necessarily aware of other offers. It might encourage some people to add their names when they know what sort of help is offered/needed. Even I had difficulty finding the most up-to-date version.
OFFERS OF HELP FROM FORUM MEMBERS
ttcycle
She has experience with community campaigns. Also has a broad sheet contact, and has two film-maker friends - she will contact them.
Magnatom
knows a CEO of an Ad Agency
scouserinlondon
He is in web marketing. Used to work for a trucking magazine. Still has contact with the editor and will call him, when there is a "clear campaign and idea". He is also happy to help with any promotion stuff you need to do, from SEO and PPC campaigns to any website, to laminating and flyering.
Ben Lovejoy
www.photographybybenlovejoy.com has offered his skills in still photography. He can also drive a 7.5 ton truck.
Plax
has offered to help with campaigning
Kaipath
has shot videos before, he gives a link to one of them - I tried to copy the link, but it would not work on my computer. He says it is NSFW.
karlos_the_jackal
(www.myolondon.com) He has offered advertising skills which includes clean graffiti, I think this means it washes off.
Jake
He edits videos, makes websites. He has got a film crew, (but they usually film people with not much on).
GordyFaeEdinburgh
He would be happy to host the website. He would also be able to help put a web-site together.
Sh4rkybloke
He has put together a video see post No 215 on page 22 for the link.
Rhythm Thief
He may be able to find a lorry we can use, but will need to ask the relevant people.
Gabefleming
Is a journalist and website editor for Nursing Times, and is happy to write any promotional copy, script for the video, or press releases. Also experienced with social media and would be happy to help with promoting the initiative through facebook, twitter etc.
Cotterpin
He has volunteered to hand out leaflets to cyclists at junctions. He also has contacts with the LCC. He would be happy to co-ordinate giving out cards at the roadside, with the possibility of this being across the country.
Nigelnorris
He has spare hosting capacity and is familiar with blog/forum set-up and administration. He says his skills are not up to building sites from scratch.
User3143
He has offered to be the victim/cyclist in the video. He is free every Thursday and Friday, and is half an hour from London by train.
The following have also offered to help but not sure how they can help
Davywalnuts
wesa
semislickstick
Arch
Jim Noir (says he can do home movies)
upsidedown
Would it be an idea to have this list as a separate thread? The list is getting longer, and as people offer their help, they are not necessarily aware of other offers. It might encourage some people to add their names when they know what sort of help is offered/needed. Even I had difficulty finding the most up-to-date version.
OFFERS OF HELP FROM FORUM MEMBERS
ttcycle
She has experience with community campaigns. Also has a broad sheet contact, and has two film-maker friends - she will contact them.
Magnatom
knows a CEO of an Ad Agency
scouserinlondon
He is in web marketing. Used to work for a trucking magazine. Still has contact with the editor and will call him, when there is a "clear campaign and idea". He is also happy to help with any promotion stuff you need to do, from SEO and PPC campaigns to any website, to laminating and flyering.
Ben Lovejoy
www.photographybybenlovejoy.com has offered his skills in still photography. He can also drive a 7.5 ton truck.
Plax
has offered to help with campaigning
Kaipath
has shot videos before, he gives a link to one of them - I tried to copy the link, but it would not work on my computer. He says it is NSFW.
karlos_the_jackal
(www.myolondon.com) He has offered advertising skills which includes clean graffiti, I think this means it washes off.
Jake
He edits videos, makes websites. He has got a film crew, (but they usually film people with not much on).
GordyFaeEdinburgh
He would be happy to host the website. He would also be able to help put a web-site together.
Sh4rkybloke
He has put together a video see post No 215 on page 22 for the link.
Rhythm Thief
He may be able to find a lorry we can use, but will need to ask the relevant people.
Gabefleming
Is a journalist and website editor for Nursing Times, and is happy to write any promotional copy, script for the video, or press releases. Also experienced with social media and would be happy to help with promoting the initiative through facebook, twitter etc.
Cotterpin
He has volunteered to hand out leaflets to cyclists at junctions. He also has contacts with the LCC. He would be happy to co-ordinate giving out cards at the roadside, with the possibility of this being across the country.
Nigelnorris
He has spare hosting capacity and is familiar with blog/forum set-up and administration. He says his skills are not up to building sites from scratch.
User3143
He has offered to be the victim/cyclist in the video. He is free every Thursday and Friday, and is half an hour from London by train.
The following have also offered to help but not sure how they can help
Davywalnuts
wesa
semislickstick
Arch
Jim Noir (says he can do home movies)
upsidedown
AnotherEye
Well-Known Member
- Location
- North London
Here I am; I've joined the forum. The above mentioned is not actually a "cyclist friend" but someone who has posted on the CTC forum. I'll send him a private message today. As this thread is more than 40 pages I have not read it all so please forgive me if I cover ground that has already been covered.ttcycle said:
Has a storyboard been made? If so, where can I see it?
TfL have recently released this video:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/11687.aspx?lid=switcher
It's about half way down the page.
I posted this comment on the CTC forum:
http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27057
At first glance I thought 'Sharing the road together' is a good title but having watched it twice I really don't think that vehicles with 'blind spots' should be allowed on the roads without an escort. In the film the lorry driver says: "Some of the roads in the city are not really built for LGV's so it can be quite a challenge sometimes".
TfL claim: "We've produced a training film to help cyclists and lorry drivers navigate London's busy roads - and each other - safely" but it appears to be aimed more at the cyclist; the cyclist advises "don't undertake if LGV is indicating (unless the lights have only just turned red)". Nowhere does it insist that lorry drivers must always use their indicators or that they should never stop within the area of the advanced stop line.
The cyclist also says "It's no-one else's responsibility, ultimately, to make sure that your safe. It's your (own) responsibility and I felt that very keenly ...". Whilst I think that this is good advice it should never be used to let a driver of the hook if s/he is at fault.
CopperBrompton
Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
- Location
- London
2-sec video clip of cyclist on wide, empty roadAnotherEye said:
Caption: Plenty of room
2-sec video clip of cyclist taking primary in left-hand filter lane, cars in straight-ahead lane to right
Caption: Plenty of room
2-second video clip of cyclist taking primary in straight-ahead lane, cars in left filter-lane to right
Caption: Plenty of room
Still photo of lorry at lights, wide gap to its left, cyclist heading for gap
Caption: Plenty of room?
2-sec video clip of cyclist cycling up the left of the lorry and stopping at the lights
In-cab shot of driver checking wing mirror and looking above the cyclist, no cyclist visible
In-cab shot of driver applying left-hand indicator
In-cab shot of driver pulling away and turning left
In-cab shot of wing mirror, showing lorry centimetres from railings, but still looking above the height of the cyclist
Freeze video
Cut to still of mangled bike beneath wheels
Cut to still of crushed helmet
Cut to still of other debris
Video of sheet being pulled over body under lorry
Fade out to caption:
[Cyclist version] Don't let a lorry have a crush on you
[HGV driver version] Don't let your lorry have a crush on a cyclist
ttcycle
Cycling Excusiast
another quick update:
1.spoke to a friend who will try and utilise her contacts in the Specials police force in the city to try and help re road closures - not sure if this will lead to anything but worth a try.
2. Another interested party- able to help with publicity, has suggested flyering at Critical Masses and is interested in helping out in whatever shape he can.
3. Feedback from filmaker re road closures:
erm road closures are a pretty big deal, in the beeb (at least in documentary) can't be seen to be effecting situations, as there are massive legal implications, potential health & safety knock on effect.
if you do want to close a road i think it would cost lot of money, best to speak to 'film london' about how to go about it
but speaking from my own experience, depending on the size of the road, if it's pretty small you could hold & direct traffic during shooting, then let them through.
legally you would need to speak to the owner of the road (council/ local residents) and say you would like to film by the road and don't mention you'll be holding traffic.
my advice would be find a very quiet area where you won't effect anyone, cheaper and easier.
1.spoke to a friend who will try and utilise her contacts in the Specials police force in the city to try and help re road closures - not sure if this will lead to anything but worth a try.
2. Another interested party- able to help with publicity, has suggested flyering at Critical Masses and is interested in helping out in whatever shape he can.
3. Feedback from filmaker re road closures:
erm road closures are a pretty big deal, in the beeb (at least in documentary) can't be seen to be effecting situations, as there are massive legal implications, potential health & safety knock on effect.
if you do want to close a road i think it would cost lot of money, best to speak to 'film london' about how to go about it
but speaking from my own experience, depending on the size of the road, if it's pretty small you could hold & direct traffic during shooting, then let them through.
legally you would need to speak to the owner of the road (council/ local residents) and say you would like to film by the road and don't mention you'll be holding traffic.
my advice would be find a very quiet area where you won't effect anyone, cheaper and easier.
Origamist
Legendary Member
For your information:
Is there any chance you could post these on the forum. I dont know where to put them so people will see them - on the original rider down link or Eilidhs memorial ride, or somewhere else....?
I want to ask people to print off the jpeg onto sticker paper and stick these anywhere they see one of Boris's idyllic posters promoting cycling. (Or their friends and family as forum people will not be taking the tube where all the posters are situated).
The photo is an example.
What do you think?
Im not too hot at that forum stuff so would really appreciate your help in posting.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Many thanks
Kate (Eilidhs sis)
Images:
Is there any chance you could post these on the forum. I dont know where to put them so people will see them - on the original rider down link or Eilidhs memorial ride, or somewhere else....?
I want to ask people to print off the jpeg onto sticker paper and stick these anywhere they see one of Boris's idyllic posters promoting cycling. (Or their friends and family as forum people will not be taking the tube where all the posters are situated).
The photo is an example.
What do you think?
Im not too hot at that forum stuff so would really appreciate your help in posting.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Many thanks
Kate (Eilidhs sis)
Images:
CopperBrompton
Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
- Location
- London
Hmmm. Must say I'm not convinced by that idea.
First because the poster campaign is an excellent one, promoting cycling in London, and the addition of the sticker suddenly makes it seem dangerous (which it statistically isn't).
Second because it's so non-specific, I don't think it helps anyone avoid the degree of danger that does exist.
First because the poster campaign is an excellent one, promoting cycling in London, and the addition of the sticker suddenly makes it seem dangerous (which it statistically isn't).
Second because it's so non-specific, I don't think it helps anyone avoid the degree of danger that does exist.
CopperBrompton
Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
- Location
- London
Backup plan, if a few of us are willing to put our hands into our pockets for this one, is to hire a 7.5-tonne truck for the day.
ttcycle
Cycling Excusiast
I echo the above sentiments re the HGV sticker - seems too vague to be giving out the right message.
As for hiring a truck it depends how much it costs
Last ditch attempt from me in relation to a HGV - I'm going to contact a friend from school who I've lost proper contact with over the years; her father used to be a trucker and may have contacts that can help us.
Worth a try right?
As for hiring a truck it depends how much it costs
Last ditch attempt from me in relation to a HGV - I'm going to contact a friend from school who I've lost proper contact with over the years; her father used to be a trucker and may have contacts that can help us.
Worth a try right?
