The new improved Lance Armstrong discussion thread.*

[david k]

Boris Becker‏@Becker_Boris
"Don't hate the player,hate the game"is my comment about the whole L.Armstrong saga....

well i dont think any of them were born as dopers, a lot is to do with the culture they find theirselves in.

difference with LA was how he led the whole thing, took it to another level, worked so hard to cover it up, its people like him who create the culture

 

[laurence]

RESULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GrumpyGregry]

well i dont think any of them were born as dopers, a lot is to do with the culture they find theirselves in.

difference with LA was how he led the whole thing, took it to another level, worked so hard to cover it up, its people like him who create the culture

nope. can't agree. people like him exploit the culture that already exists. he didn't come up with dopage. folk were at it before him and are at it now. he just used the uselessness of the governing bodies and testing regimes better than everyone else. seems to me he looked at the sort of culture that shrugs its shoulders and says "cycling will never be completely clean. let's get on with making money please" and did just that.

 

[david k]

nope. can't agree. people like him exploit the culture that already exists. he didn't come up with dopage. folk were at it before him and are at it now. he just used the uselessness of the governing bodies and testing regimes better than everyone else. seems to me he looked at the sort of culture that shrugs its shoulders and says "cycling will never be completely clean. let's get on with making money please" and did just that.

yeh true, i realise it was there before and a bit like a dictator, shoot one and someone else steps in their place!
he exploited it more than most though, took it to another level by the sounds of it, and covered it up more rigorously than others

 

[Russell Allen]

But are the very teams that are the perpetrators of the doping scandals the best Jury?

I didn't suggest that the teams and sponsors be judge and jury, we are not in a court of law, however the big sponsors and bigger teams (especially those teams that want to attract big blue chip sponsors) can now probably see which way the wind is blowing and realize that being associated with doping/cheating is going to be a fairly bad choice for their future sponsorship. Pat McQuaid for all his vocal protestations is very firmly associated with the past rather than the future. Its true as long as there is money involved some people will cheat, but I now see a chance that doping in cycling will be the exception rather than the rule. LA was a sort of totem for a very dark period and I for one am relieved that we are where we are.

Russell

 

[Norm]

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There have been several posts removed from this thread. There will be several posters removed from the thread if the behaviour repeats.

 

[philipbh]

I didn't suggest that the teams and sponsors be judge and jury, we are not in a court of law, however the big sponsors and bigger teams (especially those teams that want to attract big blue chip sponsors) can now probably see which way the wind is blowing and realize that being associated with doping/cheating is going to be a fairly bad choice for their future sponsorship. Pat McQuaid for all his vocal protestations is very firmly associated with the past rather than the future. Its true as long as there is money involved some people will cheat, but I now see a chance that doping in cycling will be the exception rather than the rule. LA was a sort of totem for a very dark period and I for one am relieved that we are where we are.

Interesting point about the sponsorship - which reminded me of something that Pat McQ said yesterday in the press conference

"The UCI take money from the teams"

So if this money is used (as i think he asserted) to combat doping - then the teams will have some interest in and power to demand better doping controls for the sport in future

Questions:

Could or would they demand his resignation?

Is this counter productive given that he has promised to lead the fight against PED use in cycling?

Is the job too difficult anyway and someone will always be calling for better management (similar to football, politics etc)

 

[Flying_Monkey]

Another ex-USPS rider admits to doping, the Norwegian ex-rider, Steffen Kjærgaard - in this case, although he is quite clear that he started before being hired by USPS, he says it was the improvement in his results after using EPO that got him noticed by USPS and then at the team, he was put on 'the carousel' and rode in support of Armstrong in 2000 and 2001. However, he says his programme was separate from others and he doesn't know anything about them... not sure if I believe the latter, but it's possible if he wasn't close to Armstrong and the other American riders (which it seems he wasn't).

 

[mickle]

Indurain thinks Armstrong is innocent.

 

[just jim]

Silly!

 

[Hont]

Indurain thinks Armstrong is innocent.

Translation: "I was a doper and I'm scared my career is going to be revised in the same way".

 

[Hont]

And Samual Sanchez confirms what many of us suspected, by implying much the same thing...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/samuel-sanchez-criticises-armstrong-ban

 

[smutchin]

Translation: "I was a doper and I'm scared my career is going to be revised in the same way".

Indeed. It occurred to me a while ago that Indurain had a vested interest in Lance not getting caught and that was the reason for his taciturnity on the issue - Lance was the last buffer between him and an investigation into his own career. Strange that he should draw attention to himself by coming out with a statement now.

Not that I'm suggesting there was anything dodgy about Indurain's TdF wins. Oh no, not I.

d.

 

[smutchin]

Samu, you idiot, you're backing the wrong horse.

 

[rich p]

What a pair of Spanish dickheads.