The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[ufkacbln]

[QUOTE 4396907, member: 45"]Yes, let's keep it simple....

You said something, and are now pretending you meant it in another way.

Nothing more to see here.[/QUOTE]

I have clearly said that comparing professional racing with average use is illogical.....

Whether that be cyclist or motorist

Putting it into a motoring perspective reinforces that

A failure to grasp that simple case is really not my problem.

 

[Wobblers]

My take on it:
If you don't want to wear a helmet, don't. If you want to wear a helmet, wear it. But we aware of its limitations. Personally, I wear a helmet and have done since I was a kid. I'm fully aware, if I'm hit by any vehicle, especially at speed, it's not going to do anything. But, if I were to fall off my bike and hit my head riding at a normal-ish speed, it might offer some protection.
I'll stop being sensible now.

You might be being sensible, but that is not evidence - or science. The physics and biomechanics indicate that helmets do not offer meaningful protection even under the circumstances of a stationary fall. This is supported by whole population studies which consistently fail to demonstrate that helmet wearing reduces serious injury or death. It may protect against superficial scalp injuries - assuming it does not fail catastrophically in the impact (which a shocking number do - a helmet that broke into pieces is one that has failed).

Being aware of its limitations means understanding that a helmet may not offer any protection from serious injury under any circumstances.

 

[rivers]

You might be being sensible, but that is not evidence - or science. The physics and biomechanics indicate that helmets do not offer meaningful protection even under the circumstances of a stationary fall. This is supported by whole population studies which consistently fail to demonstrate that helmet wearing reduces serious injury or death. It may protect against superficial scalp injuries - assuming it does not fail catastrophically in the impact (which a shocking number do - a helmet that broke into pieces is one that has failed).

Being aware of its limitations means understanding that a helmet may not offer any protection from serious injury under any circumstances.

Hence the might...

 

[swansonj]

Lets make it very simple then.....

Is comparing the risk for for a middle aged person nipping down to the shops on a hybrid with a racing cyclist riding at speed in a close formation with a hundred others valid?

I have clearly said that comparing professional racing with average use is illogical.....

Whether that be cyclist or motorist

Putting it into a motoring perspective reinforces that

A failure to grasp that simple case is really not my problem.

Whilst I know what you mean, I don't find your use of the word "comparing" when I think you mean "equating" terribly helpful. I think we absolutely should compare the risks for a professional to the average. It is a valid comparison. The conclusion of that comparison is that one is less than the other.

 

[mjr]

Hence the might...

But as the population data shows that they don't improve outcomes, it might injure you further (there are a few "it's lucky you weren't wearing a helmet" anecdotes about) or it might cause you to crash when you wouldn't have otherwise.

 

[keithmac]

I saw a lad in front of me hit the back of a parked car (half on road and half on grass verge) at what must have been 25mph+ (we were both giving it some!).

His head hit the rear window full on but it didn't break, he was laid out in the middle of the road not moving for at least a minute (which is a long time when this has just happened!).

Stayed with him until the First Response turned up and started sorting him out.

I have no doubt he would have had serious head injuries or worse had he not being wearing a helmet (lucky he didn't break his neck tbf).

It was his fault as he was looking down rather than ahead at the time, but accidents happen.

I now always wear a helmet no after seeing that..

There is an even simpler fix; they're not compulsory. Liberate yourself from the pointless plastic.....
(Rather than derail the thread, more info here).
It's even more enjoyable than dumping the Strava!

 

[martint235]

I got hit by a bus this morning. If I'd been wearing a helmet it would probably have saved my life.

 

[Starchivore]

I saw a lad in front of me hit the back of a parked car (half on road and half on grass verge) at what must have been 25mph+ (we were both giving it some!).

His head hit the rear window full on but it didn't break, he was laid out in the middle of the road not moving for at least a minute (which is a long time when this has just happened!).

Stayed with him until the First Response turned up and started sorting him out.

I have no doubt he would have had serious head injuries or worse had he not being wearing a helmet (lucky he didn't break his neck tbf).

It was his fault as he was looking down rather than ahead at the time, but accidents happen.

I now always wear a helmet no after seeing that..

I'll be sure to avoid piling into the back of parked cars at 25 miles an hour, thanks for the tip.

 

[martint235]

Seriously?

Yes seriously as in it happened. Not seriously in that no real damage was done, he pulled out to go around the bus in front of him while I was alongside. Scrapes to shoulder and arm but obviously it would have been much worse had I not been wearing a helmet. Oh hang on.......

 

[mjr]

I have no doubt he would have had serious head injuries or worse had he not being wearing a helmet (lucky he didn't break his neck tbf).

No doubt? Absolutely no doubt? The people I've seen ride head-first into shoot unhelmeted have all died but just not stopped moving promptly?

It was his fault as he was looking down rather than ahead at the time, but accidents happen.

That's a mistake not an accident. Well, there was no need for that.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0T4EqGLxMI

I now always wear a helmet no after seeing that..

Fixing the wrong problem...

 

[stearman65]

I'm from the era (late 50's) when wearing helmets on motor cycles was not compulsory. My mother insisted I have one & bought me a black Corker. However, to fit in with the crowd of motorcycle friends, I used to leave the house wearing the Corker, stop around the corner, don my checked flat cap & RAF Mk 9 goggles, attach the corker to the bike rack & off I went, reversing the procedure when I returned. I had a couple of falls on the motor bikes, none involved striking my head, although I was lucky, especially taking a mate on the pillion when attending day release college, some nerd in a pickup truck pulled out from a side street. my front wheel struck his at about 20mph & we both sailed over his bonnet onto the tarmac. The impact ripped the clutch casing off the Dot scramble bike, we jumped up unscathed apart from a few scrapes, picked up the bike, the van driver standing there with mouth agape, started it & drove back to college. The reason for the fast departure, I hadn't passed my test & my mate shouldn't have been on the pillion.
I've just acquired a Tracer mobility trike, which is suitable for road or pavement. One of my first thoughts was do I need a helmet. The conventional cycling helmets don't appeal at all, how they have developed I don't know. What I'm looking at is a scooter type open faced helmet with a peak, which I think would add some street cred. I'm sure better designs would encourage the wearing of helmets. I watch all the hospital & emergency programmes on TV & know what damage we can inflict on ourselves without protection. Just remembered an incident, unconnected with bikes, we were on our last day of our US wedding/honeymoon trip in Venice beach Los Angeles. I hired a pair of roller blades, having been an excellent roller skater in my youth, my wife plumped for a bike, We set off down the concrete cycle path, unbeknown to me the overnight breeze had deposited sand onto the paths. With my head down & working up quite a speed, I hit a mini sand dune & took off vertically, leaving the skin from my knee & lower leg on the path, & it hurt. I had declined the helmet elbow & shin pads the vendor offered, I certainly regretted it now. I ended up swapping the blades for a bike.
Stearman65

 

[jonny jeez]

Probably been done before, but I saw this today and chuckled.

 

[mjr]

I watch all the hospital & emergency programmes on TV & know what damage we can inflict on ourselves without protection.

And also what damage we can inflict on ourselves with protection encouraging people to take more risks, or do the ones you watch not show those?

 

[stearman65]

And also what damage we can inflict on ourselves with protection encouraging people to take more risks, or do the ones you watch not show those?

I think that is a negative argument. The older I get the less risks I take. Had a new heart valve last year, new knee scheduled for later this year, so having a helmet for use on my bike is cheaper & more cost effective than a burger a day until the next blocked artery.

 

[martint235]

I think that is a negative argument. The older I get the less risks I take. Had a new heart valve last year, new knee scheduled for later this year, so having a helmet for use on my bike is cheaper & more cost effective than a burger a day until the next blocked artery.

But what benefit is the helmet affording you other than just to lighten your wallet?