glasgowcyclist
Charming but somewhat feckless
- Location
- Scotland
Does this suggest that only a small percentage of helmet wearers are convinced a helmet confers enough benefit to bother with one? In which case, why wear one at all?
GC
The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread
- Thread starter Shaun
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Does this suggest that only a small percentage of helmet wearers are convinced a helmet confers enough benefit to bother with one? In which case, why wear one at all?
GC
2IT
Everything and everyone suffers in comparisons.
- Location
- Georgia, USA
Anyone can claim badly worded and be somewhat right. And if you don't like the results you could call it useless. Out do me then with your survey.
Nonetheless the survey indicated that people who would cancel their ride without a helmet are in the minority. A vocal minority it seems.
On this tit for tat thread it looks 50/50 by nature of the ping pong responses. Yet a simple survey was 15/85 with the majority valuing the ride even if it meant no helmet.
Thankfully the moderators saw it for the simple poll that it was. It was not meant to be another argument, just a data point.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
Well, I suppose if it helps anyone realise that the majority don't wear helmets, I guess it was almost worth having a "bad accident" wished on me again
The only country I've ever seen accused of reaching a 50% wearing rate without compulsion is Ireland and even then, many of those are probably "why not, as I've got one" wearers who would still ride if they didn't have it with them.
srw
It's a bit more complicated than that...
I was at a talk given by behavioural economist Paul Craven today, and thought I'd pass on this story because it draws a nice parallel, and illustrates the limits of "common sense".
Police like putting up signs like this:
Unfortunately when they do pickpocketing actually increases, because men's automatic reaction to seeing the sign is to tap their pocket to check they still have their wallet. Which tells thieves exactly which pocket to go for.
He also reminded us of the power of the story. Researchers asked subjects whether they'd like to take a drug which is only 30% effective against a particular disease and has some nasty side effects. When accompanied by an accurate story about the side effects, only 7% of people were willing to take the drug. But when accompanied by an accurate story about how the drug had helped a patient, nearly 60% were willing to take it.
At the moment there's a big industry in telling us (a) how horrible and dangerous cycling is, and (b) how a helmet is an essential protection because [insert nasty story here]. I can't help thinking that it would be relatively simple to create a fund of stories about (a) how fun and safe cycling is, and (b) how [nice thing happened despite an accident without a helmet]. To be honest, I think (a) is more of a challenge than (b), especially when the automatic reaction to "car driver missed me" stories isn't "fantastic - car driver missed you" but "OMG - you were nearly killed. We must Do Something."
Police like putting up signs like this:
Unfortunately when they do pickpocketing actually increases, because men's automatic reaction to seeing the sign is to tap their pocket to check they still have their wallet. Which tells thieves exactly which pocket to go for.
He also reminded us of the power of the story. Researchers asked subjects whether they'd like to take a drug which is only 30% effective against a particular disease and has some nasty side effects. When accompanied by an accurate story about the side effects, only 7% of people were willing to take the drug. But when accompanied by an accurate story about how the drug had helped a patient, nearly 60% were willing to take it.
At the moment there's a big industry in telling us (a) how horrible and dangerous cycling is, and (b) how a helmet is an essential protection because [insert nasty story here]. I can't help thinking that it would be relatively simple to create a fund of stories about (a) how fun and safe cycling is, and (b) how [nice thing happened despite an accident without a helmet]. To be honest, I think (a) is more of a challenge than (b), especially when the automatic reaction to "car driver missed me" stories isn't "fantastic - car driver missed you" but "OMG - you were nearly killed. We must Do Something."
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
classic33
Leg End Member
Would anyone consider wearing a collar? Ongoing research.
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/...-athletes-brains-from-sloshing-during-impact/
"Bailes, the former Pittsburgh Steelers doctor who was instrumental in first alerting the public to the neurodegenerative disease chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE—and who is portrayed by Alec Baldwin in the Hollywood drama Concussion—says helmets fall short in protecting against injuries that occur when the brain, which floats in cerebrospinal fluid and is not connected to the skull, “sloshes” around. That led him and his colleagues to ask: “Is there any way to limit the brain’s movement and ability to slosh?” "
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/...-athletes-brains-from-sloshing-during-impact/
"Bailes, the former Pittsburgh Steelers doctor who was instrumental in first alerting the public to the neurodegenerative disease chronic traumatic encephalopathy, or CTE—and who is portrayed by Alec Baldwin in the Hollywood drama Concussion—says helmets fall short in protecting against injuries that occur when the brain, which floats in cerebrospinal fluid and is not connected to the skull, “sloshes” around. That led him and his colleagues to ask: “Is there any way to limit the brain’s movement and ability to slosh?” "
newfhouse
Resolutely on topic
classic33
Leg End Member
Rohloff_Brompton_Rider
Formerly just_fixed
Last edited:
MIPS (Multi-directional Impact Protection System) has been developed since the 1990s, but has only really gone from a few manufacturers (Bell Scott and POC) to being widely available from most
It has a second layer within the helmet that slides, reducing the rotational forces and hence brain injury
Technology explained here, although please bear in mind that it is a promotional video:
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
Aren't you worried about lower leg injuries, you careless fool? ;-)
I think (b) is the bigger challenge, as "despite an accident without a helmet" implies having an accident that people assume a helmet would help with. I know I'm tempting fate here, but in nearly three years since I stopped routinely wearing a helmet, I've yet to hit the floor again in an accident, except for the last time I wore one! Since then, I've crashed at least twice but ended up on my feet (once off the bike, once astride it) and recovered a couple of losses of balance that I wouldn't expect to (such as a bad front wheel slide).
If helmets are making crashes worse, they're self-reinforcing and convincing stories with (b) are going to be quite rare.
MontyVeda
a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
- Location
- Lancaster... the little city.
